Voidbinders Taking a Break in 5.2

General Discussion
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In the past, when a new raid tier would come out, items from the previous raid tier that were purchasable for currencies would be downgraded to the lower tier of currency (justice/honor.) Why not allow us to upgrade old items with justice/honor and just hold back the valor/conquest upgrades on the newest gear for the next patch?
Are you then removing the cap on VP for those players who don't want to be forced into rep grinds because they hate dailies so we can retain all the VP we earned and spend it once the upgrade vendor is back for us to use it?

Or are you finally going to give up tying VP to rep and allow us to purchase our filler gear without the grind?

If you're trying to force people back into dailies, stupid move. It caused a lot of grief in 5.0, it will cause a lot of grief in 5.2. As things stand right now, I have NO reason to bother logging into the game except for the guild raid because there will be no content worth doing.

There is no point in scenarios since there are no rewards to make them worth the time unless I do dailies, which I will not do.

There is no point to random dungeons since there are no rewards to make them worth the time unless I do dailies, which I will not do.

There is no point to LFR when I'm getting better gear from normal raiding so there is no reward unless I do dailies, which I will not do.

Right I do them so I can VP cap to upgrade the gear I'm getting raiding. Come 5.2 I have no reason to do them and thus no reason to even log in except at raid time.

If Blizzard's intention is to turn WoW into a game of dailies and LFR for loot, please do us al a favor and come right out to admit that. Change the blurb on all your packaging and in your marketing material to reflect the reality of what the game is because epic adventuring and battles are quickly starting to disappear from the game in favor of fruit picking and easy loot. Easy to get does not equal epic.
01/14/2013 11:36 AMPosted by Cybersox
No raid tier in 5.3? Do we get a contested zone then like TB and WG?

You'll get MORE DAILIES and LIKE IT because BLizzard told you to.
Hint: Its because you are gonna rep grind rather you like it or not.
01/14/2013 12:27 PMPosted by Joynal
No raid tier in 5.3? Do we get a contested zone then like TB and WG?

You'll get MORE DAILIES and LIKE IT because BLizzard told you to.

01/14/2013 12:27 PMPosted by Uld
Hint: Its because you are gonna rep grind rather you like it or not.

I think most players will just quit rather than rep grind again. It was miserable the first time around. Only a masochist would put up with it again.
01/14/2013 12:15 PMPosted by Keeblik
Upgrading only makes sense for people who have raid-quality gear.

Yet there is a Justice Point option for Heroic Dungeon loot.
You really need to offer some way to spend valor that doesn't require grinding out a reputation with dailies. This has been my biggest issue with this expansion, and it's starting to make the experience plain miserable; you can earn valor in all of these ways, including now from dailies. Yet you *cannot spend any of it* unless you do daily grinds. After so many years of playing this game, I'm tired of doing daily quests. And this is just on my main, let alone my alts. The upgrade npc was a way to spend valor that didn't require rep grinds. Please put in some alternative way to spend valor. Otherwise you're basically removing the only option for some of us to spend valor that isn't like pulling teeth.

I saw a reply in one of GC's tweets about how he thinks some of us just hate daily quests. Yes, some of us do just plain hate daily quests. Why is this wrong? Isn't one of the whole points of this expansion to offer options for content? You're essentially doing the opposite of that with valor points. Even if it's not the intended main way to gear, valor shouldn't be *worthless*. Please give us another option to spend it so that it isn't.
Wouldn't it make more sense to put the new raid tier at an ilvl above upgraded previous tier?

A double-upgraded 489 becomes 497. If the new raid starts at 502 for normal gear, as is pattern, then it's pretty obvious that 502 > 497 (unless you guys are doing a really bad job on itemization).

I suppose this raises the question of why would you even keep the upgrades, then? The answer to that is that it keeps valor from being wasted for players at or near the cap, if they can't do whatever it takes to unlock the new valor gear fast enough.

Valor upgrades might be a faster (if not better) option for LFR players to unlock the next LFR tier, too.
Just wanted to add my two cents.

There is a critical question that was not addressed in that blue post, which is: Will current gear purchased with VP get downgraded to be purchased with JP in 5.2?

If it is, then this change is fine.

If it is not, because maybe you want to force players into Raid Finder and doing dailies, then it's not fine. Being able to upgrade my 463s to 471 saved me probably a good weeks worth of doing heroics to get into MSV LFR with an alt.
I hope they don't come back. It's just another reason to have to valor cap every week. I'd rather play an alt.
I definitely don't see the point in removing the ability to upgrade blues using JP. The upgrade system for JP gear was great in allowing new 90s to supplement their gear as they got to the point where they weren't getting all the drops they needed and they already had exhaused the logical purchases. It reduced the pressure on players to grind rep on alts to buy valor gear so they could get into LFR.

With regards to the valor upgrade system, I always saw it as a problematic "rich get richer" scenario in terms of gearing, but taking it out for gear that qualified for it a week prior seems a bit of a strange decision. In most cases buying the new gear will be the way to go, but presumably there's another rep grind involved. Why not just leave it in for the gear that qualified for it before and just block it for the new drops? Players making poor decisions in gear purchases doesn't seem like a good enough reason.

The daily chokepoint for gearing has become a bigger issue as the expansion progresses. I understand the desire to get people out in the world doing stuff, but there needs to be a better middle ground. For awhile I was able to take time off dailies on my main since I had built up enough coins from my early rep grinding to revered to keep me set, and I got by on raiding and heroics mostly for valor.

But now I'm finally running out of my coin stockpile and I've realized I'm going to have to go back to several dailies a day just to make sure I have coins for gear every week. It's annoying enough for me as a well geared dps to make the time for them, but I really feel for the healers and tanks who are in a similar situation and are forced to offspec or do the dailies slower or just give up on having coins for gear.

The coins are a great addition to the game, but tying them and the rep grind entirely to dailies is taking the game in the wrong direction and speeding up the burnout people normally feel after the initial newness of an expansion has worn out.

I will say that one benefit of removal of valor upgrades in the next tier is I'm hoping there will actually come a point where I can take a break from dailies and heroics for awhile like I used to be able to in past expansions (although without a change to coin supply I don't know). I was about done with valor upgrades this tier when they added in the upgrade system and so I've not been able to wind down later in a tier like I usually do. It also takes a toll on the enjoyment of alts and the ability to have geared alts to fill in with other guild raid groups (which we historically have relied upon)
01/14/2013 10:12 AMPosted by Nathanbp
Great, please never bring them back. Being forced to cap valor every week forever is pretty terrible, I'd like to be able to have a life besides WoW. Or at least to be able to play an alt.

You're not 'forced' to upgrade your gear and don't bother coming up with any excuses about it.
i'm pretty sure my response got put in the wrong thread somehow so !@#$ me i'll just leave this here
I saw this on the forums already a while back I suppose its good to get a stickied version though with more info to it than what GC could fit into his twitter posts.

Thanks Bashiok for explaining this.
Would like to use this to point out the glaring lack of mention that this is basically removing content which we, the players, spent time testing for them on the 5.1 PTR. So you devs spend time and effort developing this brand new system, obviously quite a bit of work went into it. When suddenly, you all decide a few months later, to just take it out. I seem to vaguely recall reading posts before about how you guys didn't like removing content.

This was a major point of the patch in the first place, along with the start of the Pandaren Campaign. The major points were: Pandaren Campaign, Item Upgrades, Brawler's Guild. Good idea to remove a third of the content that was highlighted in the patch notes? Not sure how this is seen as anything but a slap in the face of your loyal customers who test your product for you, to just decide after such a short time you're going to remove it. Like the feature or not, the hard work of many devs, testers, programmers, and so on went into this. A seemingly very impromptu, careless decision yet again.

Time wasted on something that will be in the game for a couple months at most, that could've been used to work on anything else that needs improvement.
If the new raid gear is like starting at I don't know... 530 Ilvl. I take back this comment.

However isn't this making it possible that the "best" items (hint: Sha touched weapons) will be upgraded heroic versions of items in the 5.0 tier and that if you weren't lucky enough to get them upgraded before 5.2 hits... Tough Luck?

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