01/14/2013 06:18 PMPosted by Valius
REally? You're actually saying "Hey, you people are too stupid to figure out how to spend points so we're going to make the choice for you so you can't do the 'wrong' thing."
How insulting. Do you really think someone's going to mosey up to the upgrade vendor and accidentally spend valor? That they're not going to realize that new gear might be better? And... if they do, so what? Maybe they mean to (see my post earlier for why) or maybe they make a mistake. So? Do you have any idea how paternalistic and condescending this sounds?
That's your own projection then theirs. I've actually come across this conundrum myself. Really you can't accuse Blizzard if being paternalistic. They aren't implying any of us is stupid. Stop projecting yourself on Blizzard. They aren't acting condescending here either.
Then propose an alternate interpretation. There's zero reason to remove the upgrade vendors. If I want to upgrade the weapon I got off Lei Shi instead of buy new gear, I should be able to. That they're removing that option for the reason stated certainly does imply that the player isn't bright enough to make the 'right' choice. Read the damn quote.
Yea, I got into raid finder pretty dang easy. I was in MV one week, and then in HoF the next week. I got the klaxxi and golden lotus items from exalted after the double rep change, and bought the crafted leather gloves and chest, and had no issue at all.
You definitely don't need valor upgrades to get into LFR, heck you're better off buying valor gear.....
And again, you miss the point. Read the thread, esp my first post.
Some of us don't want to rep up our alts just to be able to buy valor gear. I repped up this toon and just don't feel like doing it on my alts. I'm fine gearing at a slower pace, but if I want to do LFR with my hunter alt and spend VP on upgrading that gear why shouldn't I be able to do that? Why should I be forced to either rep up so I can buy gear or let the VP rot? Who, precisely, does it hurt if I choose to play this way? No one. It hurts no one. The people who rep up (including this toon for me) can buy gear. The people who choose not to can upgrade LFR drops so they get some use out of Valor. Removing that latter choice hurts me and helps no one. What it means is that I'll simply play less on my alt because I'll have zero reason to care about acquiring VP.
^Agreed. Although I disagree with the efficiency, choices like those are always good for diversity and competitive gear grinding to be in the best condition for the long term, for whoever it is. They're taking out an option cause people might get confused? Are they serious?! We're four expansions in, at max level, and they think they can't handle a little choice of how to level up our gear?! I'm just baffled right now. Even if I, for whatever reason wanted the option gone (which I don't), I'd still be baffled by their reasoning to do so.
Here's a thought: Remove Valor completely. There is almost no point in earning it anymore and it's just a waste of time.
I get what Bashiok is saying. It's a legit move to stop players from cutting their own legs off. That being said I think there's a better way. Such as having the item upgrade npc actually telling the player that most of the time its better to buy new gear instead of upgrading existing gear when you click to upgrade and adding in a small random tooltip when you're logging on (you know like "Killing guards give no honor". Blizzard seems to be setting a bad precedent with some of the player base by taking away things that have become part of the game. I'm also keeping in mind the conquest cap problems that pvpers mostly seem to dislike right now and the recent hotfix. I think there are different approaches to solving this problem without making big changes.
So does this pretty much mean that I need to upgrade whatever pvp piece I have til the new patch comes out?
There has to be a more elegant solution then simply removing the npc's from the game and plopping them back in now and then. We already have enchants that require a item level so why can't the reverse be true? only able to upgrade blue's so alts can still go through heroic instances. They just won't be able to upgrade purples. And you know after a content patch or two allow those i390-whatever to be bumped up to upgrade as well.
Vendor NPC's need a break? Yeesh they just got there. Personally I thought the upgrade option was one of the best things Blizz ever came up with! Wow, a place to actually use my extra valor! Bad move taking it away :(
this... pretty much blows. only way i can get pve gear is via LFR because i refuse to play Mists of Pandaily quests every freakin' day. i don't even know why i reactivated... there aren't enough ways to get gear as it is, and i've been trying to edge into raids getting lucky in LFR and upgrading those items as i get them, as you've made rep gear dependent on a part of the game that i will not play. i still don't have the gear level needed to raid in 10 mans. and then you remove my upgrade path because it doesn't match what you consider to be the appropriate way to gear climb, or you assume everyone has the gear they need for this tier already...
01/14/2013 12:32 PMPosted by JoynalHint: Its because you are gonna rep grind rather you like it or not.
I think most players will just quit rather than rep grind again. It was miserable the first time around. Only a masochist would put up with it again.
The first time around was the BC expansion. Last time I checked, there are still plenty of players.
Bottom line: Blizzard does not believe that the average WoW player is intelligent enough to decide on the smartest way to spend justice/valor when a new tier emerges.
Some individuals, who earn only a few points per week, may find themselves forced to save 2200+ points over their goal of 1500 for an upgrade. What this may mean to them is that they will not see a viable (vendor sourced, not dropped) upgrade for a couple of weeks or even a month.
I play many characters, I can't possibly keep up with the required hours to grind them all to max valor. Not all of them are even in LFR yet. Grinding heroics/scenarios/dailies, etc... takes a huge amount of time to accumulate any significant valor. Maybe I want those 476 boots from Sha (quest claw) half-way upgraded to get that last point to get into LFR, which will open that char up to upgrade potential in the weeks to come.. instead of saving to 2200+ valor for a fresh new shiny tier that I may not be able to afford for a month or so.
You "Think" you are required. This is incredible that many people still believe they are actually *required* to do something in this game. And there in lies another issue with your comment. You play many characters, you aren't required to do so. You choose to do so, which is how you choose to "spend" your currency (Time). Which limits how much gear you can acquire across your multiple toons.
I really hope they redesign the whole system, because feeling forced to cap out valor every week or risk falling behind in gear is just ridiculous and painful.
thanks a ton blizz. take out EVERYTHING thats helpful in the least bit in this game. bad enough that you nerf my class into the dirt. now i cant even upgrade what i have on, which in some cases is still junk due to the abyssmal drop rates. PLEASE at LEAST bring back upgrades for JP items. i was saving my VP for the items themselves, but desperately need to upgrade the blues i cant find good replacements for yet.
01/14/2013 10:00 AMPosted by Bashiokwe’re actually just temporarily removing them from the game for 5.2 due to the new raid tier.
I dont hate this idea, its a good decision for the content being released. The only problem with this is PVP. I have a priest thats full malevolent atm and I was actually looking forward to upgrading the gear so i could progress better in arenas. If the current gear is keeping its current upgrades then thats means that people who geared faster than me in higher arena ranks will have a huge advantage. Balance is tough, I understand. Perhaps keeping it in the game but having restrictions on it, or keeping the upgrading in 5.2 for PVP users. Unless there will be an introductory of new gear, then what im saying is pointless.
They should keep the NPC around but only allow JP (maybe Honor, but JP more importantly) upgrades to help newcomers or alts. JP and upgraded Rare quality items should have 0 affect on gearing for new raid content or current players anyways, and should not force any decisions or affect decision making.
Even Ethereals need a vacation, and the item upgraders (Voidbinders), are no exception. They’re saying they need to go home to take care of business arrangements, but … I’m not convinced. I think they’re just homesick for their ‘space mummy’ families.
Ok ok, fourth wall broken, we’re actually just temporarily removing them from the game for 5.2 due to the new raid tier. The idea with the item upgrade system is that it’s a way to spend currency on upgrading items when buying new items isn’t the clear path. Either you’ve bought everything, or at least most of them, and then spend currency to get that extra *oomph*. With a new raid tier coming, we don’t want to create a trap where people are wondering what’s more lucrative: spend currency on new items, or on the new gear appearing on vendors? (Hint: It’s the new gear on vendors.) To help ensure we’re not indirectly encouraging anyone to spend their currency somewhere they probably shouldn’t, the item upgraders will be taking a break.
Right now we’re planning for them to return in 5.3, which will not have a raid tier, and offer upgrades again as people will have likely have some currency to burn. We’re not sure yet if we’ll continue this cycle of having them take a break for raid patches and then come back in non-raid patches, but we’ll continue evaluating as we go, absorb feedback, and let you know how these plans evolve.
Unfair advantage in PvP.
Right now it is extremely hard to break into rated bg's and get.. you're rating up... in order to... increase your conquest point cap... in order to... get more conquest points... in order to... buy more gear and more importantly to this discussion upgrade current epics aka conquest epic gear.
Turning off the ability to upgrade current conquest, without a doubt, gives current upgraded conquest players a clear and present advantage over others in PvP. ALL PVP.
5.0-5.1 PvP has not been appropriately balanced, as you clearly know and why you are doing large scale PvP related changes for 5.2, with some classes clearly above others. As a result, you are supporting those players who took advantage of this class deficiency and unbalanced the numerical representations of the classes and specs.
To simplify, removing the upgrade option to PvP Gear is gesture of favoritism, whether intentional or not, the systematic result of this decision yields the same result.
Our game developers need to think of something else. They need to do better than this decision. They can do much better than THIS.