[Patch 5.2] The Future of Resto Druids

I have been playing with a Mage and Spriest as a Holy Paladin. We're friends and enjoy arena together. We were going to start taking things seriously so I decided to level a resto druid since it seemed to just fit better than HPally's at the time.

As of the arena healing nerf my druid was at 78. He's still there...

We played games that week and found that RDruids just couldn't keep up. We're only playing at 1500 but for the first time I was outhealing druids, and it was by a decent amount. Deep switches are much worse on druids now (and that's coming from a Pally). We just switch to a druid on every deep and also find that there is zero room for error for them. If they get behind on healing and can't be offensive with CC they just dwidle.

Displacer was the only real saving grace and that will change.

I see the blanket silence changes helping druids a bit because you'll actually be able to get off some heals. But, casting will probably become more of a rarity because interrupts will become so much more valuable.

It's just sad to see Disc priests and druids falling off the radar.

Holy Paladins are actually the exception because their CC and mobility is FAR to strong considering their burst healing and they need major league nerfs.

CC/burst healing yes but whats this mobility u speak off? nothing compared to rdruid

Holy Paladins are actually the exception because their CC and mobility is FAR to strong considering their burst healing and they need major league nerfs.

CC/burst healing yes but whats this mobility u speak off? nothing compared to rdruid

Paladins (in plate) have better mobility than a druid. Between the sprints and cleanses the only thing you don't have is the "physical snare" removal. However, you DO have Freedom on a very short cooldown (which can also be used very offensively) and a full immunity bubble to boot. You also have an instant AE blind to buy yourself a few steps. Can you cast while sprinting? We can't ... we lose our speed buffs when we shift out. You can freedom up and run around healing, including being able to cast some things "on the run." What do we have? Powershifting in leather, no shield, and we have to keep popping out to heal and then another GCD to get back in? Every GCD we blow on snare/root removal is a 1.x seconds/1 GCD we are NOT healing.

We go broccoli ... welcome to CC. You full bubble...well, it can be broken only by a few classes. NEED to get to LoS ... bubble up. We don't have such "hard-outs" like instant AE blinds, immunity bubbles, short cooldown Psychic Screams, Pain Suppression (twice as good as Barkskin/Ironbark), interrupt coverage from totems, healing totems ...

All we have is ourselves, no hard-outs and really crappy heals.

Cyclone IS a pain in the !@#$ to use. "Oh it's so amazing blah blah blah."

1) You cannot DPS a kill target while it's on.
2) You cannot overlay a CC chain while it's on, leaving a micro-grap to exploit
3) It's a 6/3/1 duration CC
4) It has to be hard-cast, unlike many other CCs (feral excepted if they get the proc)

Yes, it has it's uses for stopping incoming heals, or blocking an enemy druid's bloom.
Yes it can be annoying.

You know what else is annoying?

*) Psychic Scream (8s) while priest purges your friends, info Mind Control (8s)-> Mind Control(4) 20 seconds of CC instead of a 10s cyclone chain ... what is root going to do vs a healer or a caster, really?

*) Watching while all your HoTs are purged off your friends, you eat a Hex trying to put them back on, come out, try to recover by cloning the shaman (grounded) and scarf down a windshear trying to catch up on heals since you now have to hardcast. We don't have a ranged interrupt, totem coverage or an offensive purge. Any wonder why all the top teams have shaman healers?

*) Paladin HoJ (6s) into AE blind (5 sec) into repentance (8). 19 seconds. And people are %^-*!ing about us hard-casting cyclone x3? And when you come out, Denounce so there's no way in hell you can catch up on healing even if you're in Broccoliform.

There are way, way, way better CC chains coming off other healers than anything we have via cyclone.

And don't even start with the CC chains coming off of Rogue/SP/Lock/Mage/DKs.

01/06/2013 04:53 PMPosted by Bigmoran
Hey guys, it's Bigmoran. Some of you may know me by my Vanguards 10 Minute Laugh video, others may know me as that Tichondrius druid with the goofy transmog (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/tichondrius/Bigmoran/simple) and I'm quite sure many of you may not know me at all.

I only know you as the druid who refused to believe glyph of barkskin is a better cd to face dk rogue priest, which was true, We wern't trolling, your class was dog and couldn't do anything, but you did make it longer then 95% of the shamans we faced.
Regardless, the clone issue is with ferals imo, and maybe a bit with resto with disorenting roar and displacer beast, so give or take some minor tweaking with how those work, I think it should stay untouched.

Problem is.
through the expansions ferals have slowly gotten thing things as they progressed the game, while keeping their movement speed, and shifting (for parts of it). from bc-wrath-cata, they got instant clones on procs, which is a little silly considering beserk generates combo points at twice the speed as it reduces energy cost, and they removed any chance of really kiting berserk by adding back in shifting roots, and its out of hand, ICD 15-20 sec ish, idk how strong ns is for ferals atm, i think everyone uses it, so it wouldn't be to out of hand, would solve some of it.

But they really need to outright lose something.
Faster then any class
Shifting slows/roots
skull bash gap closer (interrupt in general if you go back in time when that got added)
30 sec dance (pounce the world)
instant clones

just some of it needs to go, I understand I listed alot of the reasons people would play feral, however there currently looking at slaughtering your entire class, instead of 1 spec. I'm not one for saying X damage/healing should go up or down, but I've personally killed druids through full hots both barkskins as a solo dps, and its stupid, and watching ferals spam 80-120k ravages for 30 sec is equally as dumb, theres probably some tweaking that needs to be done, but to many people argue over it to even bother suggesting anything.
Resto druids getting nerfed to the ground (cyclone change) because feral is OP. gg blizzard


You completly destroyed Rdruid again with 30% healing reduction. We are now unplayable again, congratz...
How would a global healing debuff make one healer weaker than others? (Source)

not sure if blizzard is srs.

Shamans still crit for >250k, hpals top someone with a .8 second heal. Monks (getting overly buffed next patch) and priests are just as bad off I guess though.

Wtb a throughput buff if you're going to nerf the ever loving crap out of us for a different druid spec being op (feral). Nothing huge, it's just amazing to me in full t2 gear/mostly upgraded gear getting 55k regrowth crits in tree form against a team with an MS.

Making druids as bad as they were at the end of cata and making it so they can only play a few comps and actually do well. Thanks blizz.

*edit* only reason i'm still playing is pve is decent, and rdrood is probably the most garbage healer in pve atm. Rofl....
01/06/2013 08:31 PMPosted by Szii
Cyclone is already one of the worst CCs

I get a feeling w/o looking, that his guy has reached 1700 tops in arena... i'd say 1681 feels about right... Ok lets take a peek...


1617!!... I was close though.

Word of advice, be very careful about comments like this one. Many people will read that and just stop reading anything else you say. You lose credibility quickly with comments like 'cyclone is already one of the worst CCs'. The reason i mention your max rating is because every single high rated druid ever has agree'd that cyclone is ridiculously strong. Now i will agree tree's need the only non-dispellable CC in the game to help them heal through burst, absolutely i agree... however cyclone itself is really strong. SO for you to think cyclone is bad, means you are not using it well, and if you are a tree that isn't using cyclone well.... then you aren't high rated most likely.

It is the only CC in the game that is both undispelable and spamable (both). So that alone makes it very strong... then add to it you can't heal a teamate in the only non-dispelable spam CC? It is very very strong.

Back to OPs point i agree with most everything. MOOSSTT of the tree's that are highly rated this season, are with a mage so they get iceblock, or a spriest for incredible backup heals, or both

Now here is the issue, the best CC combination in the game is and almost always has been frost mage/tree. It's incredible CC, and clone/sheep probably should've shared a DR since LK. However at the moment tree's really do rely on ice block quite a bit to live through burst, namely warrior/hunter CDs. As such you are pigeon hole'ing tree's into playing tree/spriest/x to have success post 5.2, which is bad for the game.

By the way my highest level druid is 40, and my healer for higher rated arenas is not a tree, so i have no bias in this.
This was the whole idea, Ghost crawler hate's druids. He fixed us for 1 season so we would buy the expansion pack, then he's gonna leave us useless until next expansion.

This is cata all over again. s9 is same as s12.

gg we all got screwed again. Time to quit unless 5.2 changes don't happen.
01/06/2013 08:35 PMPosted by Ovenmitz
Cyclone is already one of the worst CCs
Yeah don't say that...
Rdruids will still be competitive, it's just not a wellfare class like hpals.
Resto Druids need the nerfs they're getting.

Instant prowl on a 30 second cooldown was overpowered. Cyclone getting diminishing returns with other spells, it's about time, because playing against Godcomp is so frustrating that it makes me want to throw my computer out the window. There is too much CC in this game, and Druids were a large part of it because of Cyclone.

Players have to die, and the only way to do that right now is with burst damage. Why? Because healer mana bars don't deplete quickly enough. I've experienced many games where they barely budged at all. If people can't run you out of mana, the only other alternative is to burst a person down and pray you are CCed long enough to not be able to pick the player back up.

Cyclone is great at 20 yards! It's a powerful CC. You should have to expose yourself to use such an effective CC on other players. If healers were able to easily CC people at range with no cooldown, games wouldn't end because healers would constantly slow down the flow of damage while hiding behind their pillars. A burst kill would be much harder to pull off.

The 5.1 change to Battle Fatigue hurt everyone that uses heals. No healer was spared. Overpowered DPS classes also affect everyone. Blizzard took steps to bring Warriors into line.

The game needs fewer instant heals and fewer burst heals so that players can die when they healer is not out of mana. Healers need to cast. That's a rare occurence in today's PvP.
01/07/2013 11:02 PMPosted by Wowthinker
Resto Druids need the nerfs they're getting.

No, you're retarded.
I would gladly give up cyclone if I was returned with psychic scream. Instant aoe fear on like what, 30 sec cd? not positive.

Rdruids struggle as is right now, no nerf to our cc or survivability is justified until we receive a buff to our healing allowing us to actually top people. Also, our mana bars deplete very quickly, because we have to spam regrowth at 20k per cast, for a 40k heal... 10/10 troll.
01/07/2013 11:02 PMPosted by Wowthinker
Healers need to cast. That's a rare occurence in today's PvP.

Believe me... we cast... a lot... I'd estimate at least 50 regrowths hard casted in an average game. Not to mention having to hardcast clones which risks getting locked/clone stopped, and then we fall behind on our already pathetic heals
That's gotta be the gayest transmog ever..... =/
im a little worried about the DR cyclone nerfs. but i have difficulty condemning it because CC is too crazy right now.

I think the typhoon nerf was unneeded (20 to 30 sec cd).. but i understand where it's coming from

i feel a small buff to our healing would be a nice thing. I struggle greatly in keeping players up during burst it's pretty ridiculous
01/07/2013 11:06 PMPosted by Rohnx
Resto Druids need the nerfs they're getting.

No, you're retarded.
I would gladly give up cyclone if I was returned with psychic scream. Instant aoe fear on like what, 30 sec cd? not positive.

Rdruids struggle as is right now, no nerf to our cc or survivability is justified until we receive a buff to our healing allowing us to actually top people. Also, our mana bars deplete very quickly, because we have to spam regrowth at 20k per cast, for a 40k heal... 10/10 troll.

2nd on the retarded part. Our class right now is in a pretty bad shape due to our complete lack of burst healing. It's very annoying having to hope that within the chain of instant CC this game has that my lifebloom somehow crit's so that I can somehow pick up my partner from 30% hp after all hots are dispelled and I gotta replace them 1 by 1 not that the penalty for spamming dispell on lifebloom has really any effect as it heals for such small amounts compared to hpally/resto sham heals.

The 30% battle fatigue nerf hurt us the most, I can't speak for disc priest or mw monks as they were already in horrible shape but prior to the addtional 15% we were in decent shape. HoT's just dont heal for much if anything at all now.

It's pretty discouraging playing arena at times when I do my absolute best to try to keep my partners up but find it impossible to remotely keep up with the damage that is being applied along with the ridiculous amount of instant CC this game already has. Yes I do understand that people are ment to die and not be kept alive forever but as a resto druid outside of tree form health bars never really kept up.

Regardless it was fun to return to this game after 6 seasons of not pvping but 5.2 does not look promising at all as theres nothing in the works that really perks any interest to bring a resto druid any longer, with displacer no longer granting invis we'll die to the majority of swaps.

Anyways that's about it, my post at times might have seemed like a lot of QQ but maybe GC might read it(lol yeah right) and it will shed some light on his question https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/281936479238881280 and if you're wondering GC we need some sort of burst healing! and please for the love of god don't bring Mushrooms into this if you do decide to give us a second look.

this was written with little sleep so might have made errors w/e have at it trolls
You make a good point about druids having problems with burst.

Another problem I see is that some healers have ways to get out of instant CC (sacrifice, tremor totem, etc...) and druids do not have as powerful of a mechanic to avoid instant CC. Considering most CC chains are based from instant CC, it would be cool to see druids get a tool to avoid/get out of instant CC.

You're pretty much immune to sheep.
I could not agree more with how weak Resto druids are in arena right now. He covers a ton of valid points, most all other classes have many instant cast CC and lack of our natures swiftness for one instant cast cyclone our main cc is 1.5 second cast time and with burst being so high we cant afford to fake cast our cc and everything breaks roots so easily. Maim requires multiple global cd's to set up and putting me in melee range is just not my favorite :( i made a resto druid late last season because all of the great things i was hearing about it getting buffed for pvp but i regret that decision.

So who else loves being feared across the map and out of sight of your dps while they are getting bursted! our only way to break silence or fear is our Trinket please give Druids something else to prevent blanket silence as it affects us harder then any other healer.

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