"Remove flying mounts"middle ground solution?

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01/18/2013 10:29 AMPosted by Killercaitie
I don't think hopping over every mob you don't want to fight aids immersion


It does if your class or character wants to avoid fighting wherever possible.

Would a rogue or druid stealthing past all mobs break immersion too, or is it part of what they do?


It would be more immersive to plot your course around the mobs in a 2D plane, and CC mobs you didn't want to fight.

Rogue and druid stealth involves an element of risk that flying does not have.

Zero people in this thread asked for flying to be removed.


Hrm. Then I guess I shouldn't have pointed out anyone who did. Oh wait. I didn't. However, I'm seeing threads dealing with the concept of this popping up all over the place, and it's getting really tiresome.
It does if your class or character wants to avoid fighting wherever possible.

Would a rogue or druid stealthing past all mobs break immersion too, or is it part of what they do?


Grin...wasting your breath Caitie...but your breath to waste. All people must play the game their way and their way only...anything else is wrong and a mortal sin, and bliz needs to change code to force everyone else to play their way...despite the fact they can already play their way without a code change by just not mounting. It's not sufficient that they already have a way to accomplish what they want...they want it forced down the throats of others too. Luck!
Immersion is best served by a game world with internally consistent rules. A flying mount is one way of plotting a route around mobs you don't want to fight — that's not a detraction from immersion, it's exactly how we expect the investment in a flying mount to pay off.

Having the flying mount mysteriously stop working at certain times and places, on the other hand, disrupts immersion pretty terribly, shining a spotlight on inconsistencies in the game world's rules.

Immersion is not about being confronted with mobs and players. Immersion is about facilitating the willing suspension of disbelief, allowing you to feel like you're part of a believable world. In a world that already has flying mounts (the taxis), it already made sense that we could one day own them, given enough resources. It makes sense that we would use them for a tactical advantage. They aid immersion; they don't detract from it.


Being able to fly so high that the ground is almost faded into fog is quite immersion breaking when you think about how thin and cold the air at that altitude would be. There are also no winds EVER to blow you around. Apparently, Azeroth doesn't have a jetstream.

There are also no hostile birds (anymore), dragons, or lightning storms anywhere to be found up there in the cold, thin air with no jetstream.

There is no danger and that is what breaks immersion.
It would be more immersive to plot your course around the mobs in a 2D plane, and CC mobs you didn't want to fight.

Rogue and druid stealth involves an element of risk that flying does not have.


CCing a mob only holds them off for a while before making them chase you again.

& flying still has risks, please don't act like it doesn't.

01/18/2013 10:36 AMPosted by Adiathna
Grin...wasting your breath Caitie...


I enjoy forum banter, it's why I am here everyday. ;)
01/18/2013 10:28 AMPosted by Yandere
I don't think hopping over every mob you don't want to fight aids immersion.


Well, there's your problem.

Your opinion isn't universal.

01/18/2013 10:36 AMPosted by Alysson
There is no danger and that is what breaks immersion.


Immersion is entirely subjective.

I don't find running past a bunch of mobs on my ground mount particularly immersive, yet apparently you do.
I think that people who don't want to use flying mounts, aka me, should get off them and ride a land mount, which is what I do. So why do we need a middle ground? Its a senseless complaint...use a land mount, end of story.

/cast Zhevra


You're misunderstanding. It's not that THEY don't want to fly....they want YOU to not be allowed to fly. It interferes with their ganking and camping agendas.

If they can make it so others can't fly, they can extend their ganking and camping infinitely. It's not fun for level 90's that spot a level 60 herbing or mining unless they can one shot him and then camp the area for 3 or 4 hours so that person can't play wow at all that night. Those pesky 60's are learning to use stuns, roots, blinks, bubbles, etc,... to escape being camped for 3 or 4 hours straight by a level 90, and it is ruining the fun for the level 90. They should ban those level 60's that escape griefing in that fashion...unfair!


This.
No one wants to take away your ability to hover In front of the Org auction house showing off your mount. This is a way to keep people from quitting pvp servers from griefing.
And before the troll comments: have you been out to Hellfire lately on a leveling toon?


And what is wrong with easy? The destination should be what engages the player...not the journey. Unless the journey is the destination itself that is (noodle that in your head and realize its meaning doesn't even apply to here anyway).

Edit - I'm not advocating buying heroic raid gear, btw. Speaking strictly on flying here.


So you are completely fine with skipping an entire camp, landing at the named tent - taking 3 steps, killing the named, taking 3 steps back outside, mounting up, and flying away?

... yet, the same "bypassing difficulty" shouldn't apply for other parts of the game?
01/18/2013 10:28 AMPosted by Yandere
Immersion is not about being confronted with mobs and players. Immersion is about facilitating the willing suspension of disbelief, allowing you to feel like you're part of a believable world. In a world that already has flying mounts (the taxis), it already made sense that we could one day own them, given enough resources. It makes sense that we would use them for a tactical advantage. They aid immersion; they don't detract from it.


While questing, flying mounts aren't used as taxi's, they're used as grasshoppers. I don't think hopping over every mob you don't want to fight aids immersion. The occasional one? Possibly, every one? No.


I didn't say they were used as taxis. I said the existence of taxis established the existence in the game world of flying mounts. At that point, it was implausible that we wouldn't be able to own them, given sufficient resources. Once we could own them, it was implausible that we wouldn't use them as we see fit, including to gain tactical advantages over individual mobs as we see fit.

Fighting random mobs has nothing at all to do with immersion. Weird and inconsistent rules about how and when and where we can use our flying mounts, however, does have a negative impact on immersion.
[quote]There is no danger and that is what breaks immersion.


Uh, on my realm there is danger. You go afk while up on a flying mount there is a good chance an Alliance Druid or Mage will get close, attack you, you get dismounted, and then you fall to your death while they just have to slow themselves and then pop a mount or something.

Zero people in this thread asked for flying to be removed.


Hrm. Then I guess I shouldn't have pointed out anyone who did. Oh wait. I didn't.


So then why'd you bother posting, if your post about this "remove flying craze" was completely irrelevant to conversation since no one asked for it to be removed?


It does if your class or character wants to avoid fighting wherever possible.

Would a rogue or druid stealthing past all mobs break immersion too, or is it part of what they do?


It's what they do, it's part of their job detail.

One might present the perspective that being able to divebomb in on a named quest mob from 70 yards in the air devalues the ability of a rogue or druid being able to stealth past those mobs.
Being able to fly so high that the ground is almost faded into fog is quite immersion breaking when you think about how thin and cold the air at that altitude would be. There are also no winds EVER to blow you around. Apparently, Azeroth doesn't have a jetstream.


It's always daylight somewhere when it's supposed to be dark. It's always rainy/cloudy in one spot, take a step, and it's sunny and no clouds in another. It's snowy in one spot, but green and lush in the next spot over. You can be in ice crown and never freeze without a jacket.

You can't have that type of logic in this game.
01/18/2013 10:39 AMPosted by Lhivera


While questing, flying mounts aren't used as taxi's, they're used as grasshoppers. I don't think hopping over every mob you don't want to fight aids immersion. The occasional one? Possibly, every one? No.


I didn't say they were used as taxis. I said the existence of taxis established the existence in the game world of flying mounts. At that point, it was implausible that we wouldn't be able to own them, given sufficient resources. Once we could own them, it was implausible that we wouldn't use them as we see fit, including to gain tactical advantages over individual mobs as we see fit.

Fighting random mobs has nothing at all to do with immersion. Weird and inconsistent rules about how and when and where we can use our flying mounts, however, does have a negative impact on immersion.


A cooldown would be a weird and inconsistent rule?
01/18/2013 10:35 AMPosted by Yandere


It does if your class or character wants to avoid fighting wherever possible.

Would a rogue or druid stealthing past all mobs break immersion too, or is it part of what they do?


It would be more immersive to plot your course around the mobs in a 2D plane, and CC mobs you didn't want to fight.

Rogue and druid stealth involves an element of risk that flying does not have.


My immersion comes from mounting up and flying over the mobs to land where I want. I imagine myself as a tactical operative or a spy with the mission of "assassinate this one and prevent alerting the others.

You can immerse yourself in a 2d plane and CC mobs you don't want to fight.

We both end up happy.

Being able to fly so high that the ground is almost faded into fog is quite immersion breaking when you think about how thin and cold the air at that altitude would be. There are also no winds EVER to blow you around. Apparently, Azeroth doesn't have a jetstream.

There are also no hostile birds (anymore), dragons, or lightning storms anywhere to be found up there in the cold, thin air with no jetstream.

There is no danger and that is what breaks immersion.


As I've said upthread and elsewhere, I'm all for the addition of flight hazards. They would indeed improve the immersive quality of the world. But you don't improve that quality by committing additional crimes against immersion by arbitrarily grounding mounts.
Flying should not allow someone to hold the spacebar for 10 seconds, fly up a 100 yards, put autorun on and fly very quickly, directly to their destination with zero threats along the way.


Says who?


Says me.

Experienced it in other games (Rift, TOR, etc) and seen the value of not letting people just mount up and bypass content. It's too bad that both of those games had their other issues (TOR specifically) - because I had a good time there.

Flying is something that is not needed and when another game is played without it - one can really experience how much of the game immersion is removed with being able to fly over everything with no danger at all.

Convenience always comes with a price and many pro-flight guys seem to not realize what that price really is.
It's always daylight somewhere when it's supposed to be dark. It's always rainy/cloudy in one spot, take a step, and it's sunny and no clouds in another. It's snowy in one spot, but green and lush in the next spot over. You can be in ice crown and never freeze without a jacket.

You can't have that type of logic in this game.


not to derail topic, but yes! They've been playing with it! I found a river that actually has current that drags you downstream. Valley of the four winds...the waterfall that the little girl takes you to see...if you jump into the water above the falls it actually forces you to drift towards the falls! I think I heard someone else say they found something similar elsewhere. Bliz is experimenting!
01/18/2013 10:43 AMPosted by Lhivera
They would indeed improve the immersive quality of the world.


Immersion is subjective.

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