I have a theory on why warriors receive nerfs

Warrior
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Need to cut out these huge multiquotes they are making my browser glitch lol- or I am too stupid to figure it out.

Anyway- Yeah spriests are a friggin PITA. They are in god comp and are even getting buffed with insanity, correct?


Worst is GC knows they're OP but doesn't plan on doing anything right now. Guess not enough crying over them yet.


Are you saying we take a field trip to their forums and "suggest changes"? ;)
As a Hunter that plays almost exclusively with a Warrior, the class is a bit too strong. It's not really one huge thing like the damage or the CC, but a small mix of lots of it. At the same time, the class is nowhere near "unbeatable" like people try to make it seem. For classes like Spriests or Locks, I can understand why they would be mad; it's very difficult to get through Second Wind when majority of your damage comes from DOTs instead of burst. Every class has a counter, though. Hunters shouldn't lose to Mages, Mages shouldn't lose to Warriors, things like that. Of course individual skill plays a huge role in this, but if both players are at the same skill level, this is generally the standard. Now, I'll try to explain what I see as the problems.

First of all, Shockwave is currently really, really good. The 20 second CD is a bit ridiculous, and the fact it stacks with Warbringer is too good. A two minute trinket does not suffice when a class has the ability to be massacred every 20 seconds. If the Warrior class was used for its CC like a Hunter or a Rogue, I would understand this; however, Warriors do a hell of a lot more damage than both of the said classes. The mixture of this much CC and that much damage makes the class too good as a whole. Even as a Hunter, a Warrior is difficult to kite because of charge. The second one catches up to me, they can absolutely massacre me. The only defensive I have is Deterrence. In case you don't know, you can't Deterrence while stunned. At the same time, I can beat Warriors if they make a mistake. If a Warrior misuses a big ability like Reck or misses a Shockwave, I can punish them really, really badly. I have plenty of slows and ways to keep them away while their damage CDs are used for nothing. I still have trouble getting through Second Wind, but a mixture of Disengage/Widow's Venom/Concussive Shot can usually whittle them down. With all of this taken into consideration, I think the Warbringer/Shockwave DR is understandable. The double-CD on Shockwave, though, is a bit ridiculous. Without being able to stack efficiently with Warbringer, Shockwaves will be much harder to hit. Still easy, but harder. Maybe a 30 second CD would be more justifiable.

The next problem I have with Warriors is their survivability as a damage class. While it is not difficult to get a Warrior down to Second Wind range, it is extremely difficult to kill one once he hits it. The combination of Second Wind/Defensive Stance/Crazy armor makes it hard to kill a Warrior--which it should be, considering they are a plate-wearing class. But the addition of Rallying Cry and Shield Wall in case of emergencies strikes me as a bit absurd. If a Warrior can get a good stun chain off at any point in the battle--whether he is at 85% or 15%--he can kill a class. By the time someone gets out of the stun, assuming they did, the Warrior is back up to 35% health with defensives to live through whatever is thrown at him. Of course abilities like Widow's Venom help a lot, but sometimes it just doesn't do enough to kill the Warrior before the next stun rotation. With this, I think that the Defensive Stance nerf is completely understandable. That may take away just enough resistance to make the difference. The Second Wind nerf, on the other hand, seems a bit overkill. Coming from a Hunter, who has two stuns I can use (if taking the Shale Spider's stun into account), this may make the Warrior just a bit too easy to kill. This is according to my two relatively short stuns. If faced with a foe like a Paladin with its much longer stuns, the Warrior would become too easy to kill that it'd be worthless. Of course the Warrior has a trinket, but stuns are generally on a much shorter CD than 2 minutes. I think something along the lines of Second Wind only healing 3% every 2 seconds while stunned would be much more logical.

Honestly, these are the only major problems I have with the class. It is far from as powerful as people think it is--most of the crying comes from people who don't know how to react when shockwaved (i.e. the people who trinket a Warbringer and panic, then whine when they get shockwaved and the Warrior blows all CDs). Some of the things people cry about are easily overcome and necessary for Warriors to even survive as a class in PvP. I won't go into all the buffs the Warriors are getting, because I honestly don't think any of them will make enough of a difference to dramatically change the state of the game (except for the bladestorm one, potentially), and the Warrior I play with agrees.

tl;dr: Warriors are really good, but not nearly as good as people think. Far from unbeatable. Some nerfs make sense, some are crazy.
^ very informative and well-thought out post. Honestly, I don't know what they are trying to do with second wind. The only thing I can come up with is they want second wind not to be the default choice in PvP no matter what- as it currently is now. So they are nerfing it and buffing the other 2 heals. The problem is this though. Enraged regen might have been a good choice but it will cost too much rage to activate when we need to especially with the new OP cost. Impending victory could be nice but with all the snares that can be put on a warrior and kiting done it's use is limited. So the default choice is a passive heal once we reach a certain percent. But other classes can still stun us into the ground and this makes second wind useless. The healing tier is virtually crippled- they need to rework the second wind changes

I play w/ double time and I don't really have an issue hitting someone with a shockwave. It is pretty funny to see people who trinket a 1.5 s charge only to get SW'd and blown up when I pop the cds.

Anyway- Yeah spriests are a friggin PITA. They are in god comp and are even getting buffed with insanity, correct?

Spriest are getting the nerf hammer with the 30% healing reduce on flash heal. Not affecting healer priests since we get a passive +43% healing to put us back to 100%.
I agree very well-thought out. I use double-time but am thinking about warbringer to see what the combo 11 sec stun is all about; I agree they shouldn't stack. As for SW, I honestly believe they're doing what they're doing because of people saying in such abundance how it is OP. I still think that if it was an activated spell (usable at or below 35% as it is, however is player procced, and can be used while sapped, stunned, incapacitated, impaired in any way, basically) it would solve a lot of problems.

@Plastoche: Is holy getting nerfed at all; is it even viable in PvP? It generally can be a pain as it seems they never go down in arenas, so, can you enlighten me a bit?

Arës

@Plastoche: Is holy getting nerfed at all; is it even viable in PvP? It generally can be a pain as it seems they never go down in arenas, so, can you enlighten me a bit?

Arës


We are getting a massive buff for holy. Disicpline basically stay the same tho.
You probably are talking about disicpline because Holy ain't nothing to be scared about right now.

Anyway- Yeah spriests are a friggin PITA. They are in god comp and are even getting buffed with insanity, correct?

Spriest are getting the nerf hammer with the 30% healing reduce on flash heal. Not affecting healer priests since we get a passive +43% healing to put us back to 100%.


You do realize all spriest healing is also getting buffed by 25% of pvp power?
01/29/2013 04:22 PMPosted by Malfurios
You do realize all spriest healing is also getting buffed by 25% of pvp power?

Which is like 10% at 10k PvP power...
Flash heal will heal for 77% of the value it was in 5.1 for shadow with 10k PvP power.

So yes it's a big nerf to their flash heal.
Flash heal being what make Spriest so OP.
Because you're a melee class so you should out dps other melee classes? I don't understand this logic.


I do more burst on my feral druid that pvp war wut? I rofl stomped most classes in 2-3 seconds tops and heal myself for 12-20k hps at the same time warriors cant even heal that lol.

Oh and i forgot you cant root or snare me as a feral cuz of instant get myself out macro with no CD woop woop.
Because you're a melee class so you should out dps other melee classes? I don't understand this logic.

I do more burst on my feral druid that pvp war wut? I rofl stomped most classes in 2-3 seconds tops and heal myself for 12-20k hps at the same time warriors cant even heal that lol.

Oh and i forgot you cant root or snare me as a feral cuz of instant get myself out macro with no CD woop woop.


Why would you necro this thread... It has been over a month...
While it is a clear necro, it is interesting to see which theories held true post patch and which didn't. Those who suggested we would still have a place in arena and argued against the OP were proven incorrect pretty strongly.

So it goes.
You received nerfs because you were to damn powerful! Globaling peope with TFB Heroic strikes, and Swifty Macroing people... Then with 25% mitigation, die by the sword and Second wind it was very hard to kill ya.

Thats why.... There is no conspiracy
01/26/2013 03:59 PMPosted by Esclamayshun
My problem with the way blizz does their nerfs is:

Now consider this. 5.2 rolls around with all these nerfs and warriors adapt to a battle stance style of play. They've not done much to reduce the burst with cooldown stacking still. What happens when warriors still get the stars to align and global people? It's simple: Blizzard finally nerfs cooldown stacking and doesn't compensate for the last 10 nerfs.


cd stacking is fixed..not that u cant stack if u want but consider this our tfb now stacks overpowers which crits 7/10 times anyway why go and stack reck and banner on something that more often then not crit anyway.Now takin that into consideration they got rid of deadly calm which completely makes heroic strike useless considering the rage.Plus consider the fact the moment you press it u get cc now .every reroller been spammin it since 5.0 eventually even bads catch on to it.Now im not a expert by any means but to me the 1 shot macro should already be in the history book though i do still stack but after considering all the above i may have to tweek it a bit. blizz did more to stop this then what you initially may think.
Dude, we get nerfed because other players don't want to learn how to beat us. They instead want blizzard to do it for them. Thats all and nothing more.

This applies to any class actually. Whenever a class is even remotely good at damage, people QQ for a nerf because they are all addicts and they want to be enabled by Blizz instead of working to actually learn how to win against them.

ffs


"We get berfed because other classes don't want to learn how to beat us"
At the time, the only way to stop the "one shot macro" was to PREDICT when the warrior would pop it, otherwise youd die in the charge stun.

Classes get nerfed because there arent reasonable means to counter overpowered abilities. Don't be foolish to think that it's some community consipiracy based around LAZINESS?

Your class got nerfed. You know why? Because you were one-shotting people. Locks could do it with chaos bolt and chaos wave too. Guess what?
They got nerfed.

You know why? Because in ANY aspect of this game, whether its a 30 second, interruptible cast, there should never be any ONE or TWO hits that completely take away all of someones health.

Don't talk about the laziness of others when you yourself are talking about how you can't seem to kill someone without globaling them
Why was my old thread revived. lol
honestly all the crap you're spewing literally shows how much you troll people on these forums. Reported.
Arës

Eh... You realize you are the one spewing crap?


Exactly my point.


I'm not shadow, I'm holy priest.
You have berserker rage for my fears. I have a trinket for one of your many CC.

If you want, I can come duel you anytime with CRZ (since that's what you asked for in one of your posts). Won't be my priest tho since I'm healer.
I'll let you choose.
Hunter
Death knight
Druid
Which one you want to duel?
And cut the insults if you want to be taken seriously.


Ill take each one on one at a time. You think I'm joking, move to my realm and whisper me. Remember your insult? that's why I'm fuming with you. You stuck your foot in the fire, so deal with the heat or get out of the kitchen son. Also, berserker rage is on a 30's sec cooldown, how often can you fear? you can mind control, you can turn into your little cloud, you can heal, etc etc. long story short; you have your things you can use like ANY other class. Don't act like you don't. Also, don't tell me how to act, I'll say and do whatever I want to. If you don't like it, don't respond.

EDIT: Many cc's? name it; I have a charge I have to be a distance away from you; only effective way I can get farther when close; leap or run. I have a silence I can use every 30s I believe is the cooldown; otherwise: I have a 20s stun which is being changed to 40s stun. Thats it. You're turn. Be honest, what do you have? I know you have more in your little bag o tricks than a simple trinket.

Edit 2: Removed certain things said above to attend to your request of, "cut the insults". However I do want you to understand; you taking the side of someone who literally wrote something that was completely NOT what I said nor even IMPLIED is a. hurtful b. rude and c. what can set someone off, i.e. me, so take that into consideration please and thank you.


Haha I might just do that...
Why was my old thread revived. lol


I am sorry I just did it too...
I was always under the impression it was because some stupid Warrior somewhere went and killed a Mage, knowing damn well we're not supposed to.


Laughed heartily.

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