Open Libram LXV: A Fury Divine

Paladin
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Yea, thats probably what their issue is, they want the change to be big, noticeable and flashy if they do something

Because yea, censure ticks hitting more isnt all that exciting, but would be the correct way to go.
What he meant to say, but couldn't, is that it would make people have to learn their class when they were no longer able to deep-shatter-blanket and land kills.

lol
01/25/2013 01:27 PMPosted by Cayse
My suspicion is that GC is more inclined to look at something that would be an exciting


They need to get over that.

Do things the right way and let the community police itself. A Censure buff, and SoR buff cause Light it needs something, are the way to go and of course most people wouldn't see it as what they wanted but it would be what is needed.

Telling everyone that the buffs are good and they need to quit being dumb is the job of the community.
01/25/2013 01:44 PMPosted by Cadenbrie
They need to get over that.


Well thats the message they're apparently getting from the community.

People want changes to be big flashing and exciting or its not worth it.
Well if you buff passive, it'll inevitably and indirectly buff our burst as well

I think thats what their problem is, really the only thing that they could buff is censure ticks, and thats not really fun

Buffing any other ability, it'll buff our burst as well. (ex TV doing 5% more damage or direct ability buffs)


The thing is, ret is already pretty fun. Buffing censure as a band aid sucked in cata because ret wasn't that great on a fundamental level. In MoP, there's nothing inherently wrong with how our spec works, it's damage is just a bit lower than it maybe should be. At this point if a bandaid is the only solution that wont throw things out of wack, then why not?
We need mini bursts.
Dont be burst dependent.
I dont like stacking too many cooldowns to blow someone up, is not interesting and skillful.
Activating GoAK+Wings+HA+on use trinket, is easy counterable and predictable.

GC must stop balancing Ret arround holy.
Sword of Light now increases Flash of Light by 100%, up from 30%. Sounds Great....BUT

We use to have strong Defensives Cds, from Protection Talent Tree.
Sacred Shield Baseline
Old Divine Guardian : User take 20% reduced damage for 6 sec.
Glyph of Salvation : -20% dmg taken when you cast on yourself.
What. The. HELL.


wow. the !@#$?
01/25/2013 02:49 PMPosted by Covahredro
Pomping GoAK+Wings+HA is easy counterable and frequently CC.


And when its not its stupidly OP and this is a really problem as it can go from one extreme nuking ppl to shut down so hard why bother. Ret shouldn't be nuking ppl to that extreme, its too much burst, but ret shouldn't be shut down to near useless without it either.


That's why pillar of frost is so much nicer of a cooldown. :(
We could have something designed like Imp Swarm for locks. Something does more damage when our CDs are down, maybe exo procs more, idk. It doesnt really matter because it would only need to bea small buff.

But this way we would only get the buff after our burst, but never during it. That, to me, seems like a more interesting mechanic than a flat buff to censure damage, and it is certainly better than changing the fluid rotation.

I don't mean to seem complacent, but I really like how rets are atm. I wouldn't change anything except the targeting requirement for HotR and the uselessness of SoR.
The rotation, output, flow, damage distribution, heals, utility all seems sweet as can be.
opinions.
01/25/2013 04:18 PMPosted by Covahredro
I don't mean to seem complacent, but I really like how rets are atm. I wouldn't change anything except the targeting requirement for HotR and the uselessness of SoR.


If this game was pve only sure.


You're right on that one. I stopped pvp for a bit because it didn't seem to be worth focusing on. From what I gathered, we need more defense and peels. The damage is there for sure, but the healing nerf hit us hard. Having no actual gap closer can be a pain too, especially against fear-heavy comps. It really irks me when people talk about chaos bolt like "lol interrupt it." It's really easy to interrupt when you're CCd in the open, actually creating distance from the target and our main defensive CD can't be used while stunned.

I think we could do with some passive defensive that activated at low health like old ardent defender or cata's sacred shield. -actually, would we be OP if they just gave us that ability back?

anyway, even just giving ret modern Ardent defender would be a huge positive.

As always though, we aren't a standard melee spec, and as such are very difficult to balance.
01/25/2013 01:43 PMPosted by Covahredro
Honestly seals really need an overhaul, as it is the could just remove the others and leave paladins with just one depending on spec. There starting to become like Aura, just set an forget.

Agreed. The seal system needs to be fixed or replaced for once and for all. Yea yea, it's a little better than it was in Cata, but even buffs to SoR and whatnot wouldn't truly salvage this boring and lackluster system.

They need to get over that.

Do things the right way and let the community police itself.

Blizzard can be too flashy. Sometimes big changes are needed, but other times I'd rather see several surgical buffs/nerfs. Now to sound like I'm contradicting myself, onto the next quote.

01/25/2013 03:16 PMPosted by Cayse
That's why pillar of frost is so much nicer of a cooldown. :(

I had an idea a couple weeks ago that involved getting rid of Ret GoAK, reducing the CD of Wings to 2 min, nerfing HA so its CD can be lowered to 1 min, etc (won't bore you with all the details). I'm sure some Rets would go about this another way, but I know I'm not the only one who dislikes the MEGA BURST model.
01/25/2013 07:13 PMPosted by Hafleur
I had an idea a couple weeks ago that involved getting rid of Ret GoAK, reducing the CD of Wings to 2 min, nerfing HA so its CD can be lowered to 1 min, etc (won't bore you with all the details). I'm sure some Rets would go about this another way, but I know I'm not the only one who dislikes the MEGA BURST model.


As long as they found some way to keep the shiny GoAK model around for something, I'd be fine with that. But eh, looks like next expansion for something like that..

Also, a bit of more bad news:

There are no more Sha-Touched weapons forthcoming. If you've been diligent about helping Wrathion and continue to do so, your reward in 5.2 is going to be a legendary meta-gem that can go in any helmet.


On one hand, awesome, no longer have to spend 12.5k everytime I want to upgrade something.

On the other hand, well seriously, what the flying hell was the point of all that work to become dark Aladdin's bosom buddy? I mean, I get it's to continue the questline in 5.2, and I get that these gem+socket bonuses were never meant to be permanent, it's just that...it's weird doing all that work and not seeing them not last even a full raid patch. Feels odd when, for example, Valanyr, the last legendary to be released mid-expansion, was still being used well into ICC, two raid tiers after it was released (though to be fair, if I remember right it got nerfed, no?)

I'm sure H Sha touched and even N Sha touched weapons will last for awhile in the raid tier, (supposedly the new weapons drop off the last few bosses a la Elegon and Sha of Fear), it's just...weird knowing that the bonuses you worked so hard obtain have such a near expiration date, especially what with the itemization level of the new raids on a steady rise with the new Thunderforged stuff to add into the equation.

Ah well. I'll adapt. Not like we'll be clearing N HoF anytime soon for me to worry about that with our hectic schedule -.-
Me thinks Challenge Modes gear equalization will not be kind to the DPS pieces I'm using in place of Tanking items. <_<

I really wish I could have wrangled up a Tank I could trust, but alas the team is assembled and the die shall be tossed.

01/25/2013 07:13 PMPosted by Hafleur
I had an idea a couple weeks ago that involved getting rid of Ret GoAK, reducing the CD of Wings to 2 min, nerfing HA so its CD can be lowered to 1 min, etc (won't bore you with all the details). I'm sure some Rets would go about this another way, but I know I'm not the only one who dislikes the MEGA BURST model.


To be honest I like the way our burst works now for the most part. I wouldn't mind seeing HA weakened though and reworked into a Pillar of Frost type ability with a one minute CD.

I don't want Guardian to go though, he's retarded but he looks awesome.

01/25/2013 08:03 PMPosted by Jackishi
Also, a bit of more bad news:


Well then that is depressing considering I haven't even gotten to use the Sha Touched weapon at all nor may I ever get too depending on just how much time this Tier has left.

That's partly my fault I suppose for being in the type of guild I'm in, it's pushing it as fast as it can now though extending lock outs and all.

All that work and RP bits and the "legendary" items become so much trash after one patch. Talk about devaluing legendary.
The gems were always explicitly just the first step; a mere taste of what is to come. The Shadow's Edge before Shadowmourne, except even less complete (Shadow's Edge at least gave you a whole weapon, rather than just a gem that can only go in a certain weapon). In t15 he's doing meta gems instead (and possibly something else later, like he did something new in 5.1), and the actual legendaries will presumably come towards the end of the expansion.

Since you'd have to do every step anyway, I don't feel like the effort now was particularly wasted.
01/25/2013 07:13 PMPosted by Hafleur
getting rid of Ret GoAK


I've never liked that particular cooldown. And not just because I dislike pets. The whole, "rawr pop my 5 minute cooldown to do monster burst, then mediocre the rest of the time!" concept isn't that fun. Not in pve, and not in pvp.
So, six pet-dropping bosses killed so far this week and no pet drops...I think I'm gonna go broke. >_<
01/25/2013 08:20 PMPosted by Ravicana
Since you'd have to do every step anyway, I don't feel like the effort now was particularly wasted.


Yeah, that's pretty much why I'm not too horribly miffed about it, but it the rewards seem a bit on the disparate end, really. Where players could at least use their Shadow's Edge and pre-Tarecgosa staves (I was wrong about Val'anyr being last, I forgot about Firelands. ><) in a linear fashion until the final stage, it's odd that the along-the-way rewards are so different, especially when the first two stages were semi-linear to begin with (obtain Sha-touched weapon, then gem, then prismatic socket) until the curve ball with the Meta.

Although I guess that's what Blizzard's going for, a different way to approach Legendaries while still keeping them accessible enough. I won't lie though, it's still depressing that, for example, I had to lay down my Sha Axe for a N Starshatter when I spent so much time working towards the former, and I worry that when I finally do get a N Sha Axe, the itemization of even the LFR raid weapon (never mind Normal) will be such that I'd have to retire the Sha Axe as well.

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