Rogues on the PTR are flat out broken

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All this talk about prep being op when hunters get the same spell but better.

and the version of prep they get resets all cds.
Hunters have prep, no one complains about that.
01/24/2013 02:48 PMPosted by Stormspellz
and what is a worse dps spec?

Lolret is pants on head the worst dps in the game.

On the upside, we get a ranged nuke (wrath) for symbiosis! Hot stuff!
Don't hunters have a 3 minute Prep? Seems like Shuriken is broke. I don't think I need a ranged attack to do what we used to do back in Cata. Give me Prep back into my Sub spec and Rogues can cope.

People act like we have survival...if we get attacked off cooldowns, we die in 2 seconds. WE DONT HAVE MANA POOLZZZZZZZZ.
that mechanic of increase cast time is ridiculous MIND NUMB, NECROTIC, SLOW and CURSE all look so retard and annoying they should reduce this effects.
i dont know if its sucks bcuz no1 has haste yet or bcuz its really broken but it should be removed or reduced..
All this talk about prep being op when hunters get the same spell but better.

and the version of prep they get resets all cds.


Because you're comparing apples to moon rocks. Rogues CDs are genrally a hell of a lot more potent and table-turning then Hunter ones.

And if it makes you feel better (I know it won't) but I hate Readiness and Cold Snap just as much as Preperation. Cooldown-resetting cooldowns are just straight up bad mojo when it comes to trying to balance skills around them, especially when they are already on a knife's edge like many Rogue ones are.
Potentially, yes. Shuriken Toss is effective as a kiting/anti kite mechanic. Turning it into a pure damage ability without the snare potential will not help you close in on someone you're trying to catch nor will it keep someone who wants to catch you away. Consequently, the level 90 talent used on it will probably be better served for additional burst or immediate combo point generation unless the damage on Shuriken is just too good to pass up, in which case it becomes, as I said, cheesy and stupid.

This bears repeating. Shuriken Toss is there to help Rogues in a non-ideal situation which we'd avoid if we could help it, while Marked for Death and Anticipation are there to help us in ideal situations that we want to be in, and therefor will be in more of. Unless Shuriken Toss is powerful enough to make us want to be in ranged, then it'll still remain an unpopular talent.
There you go, we're still squishy, confirmed by scientific fact.

/thread, nothing to see here, happy valentines all.

xoxo


Good rogues do just fine.

The problem with rogues is, and has always been the high skill floor and the insanely high skill cap.

What does this mean?

That if you're bad or even just -okay- you're never going to do well or be competitive in any aspect of pvp as a rogue but if you're a good or an AMAZING top tier player, you can do very well even on live as a rogue. Of course why would you? You can play a warrior as a top tier player and destroy EVERYONE with half the effort.

So of course as par for the course the masses scream for buffs. Then they get them. Then all the top tier players switch back to rogue (because that's how they do) and face !@#$ everyone. The -okay- players go back to being 'competitive' and the good players destroy everyone making pvp a hell. So then rogues get nerfed again, the good players switch looking for the next fotm, the ones that are left cry and we repeat the cycle.
AS a 90 rogue, that has been playing since BC as a rogue.... i can say that pre patch we are fine.... all that was needed was a baseline prep on sub.. thats it over buff much:) inc flavor of the month
01/25/2013 03:12 AMPosted by Wicko
AS a 90 rogue, that has been playing since BC as a rogue.... i can say that pre patch we are fine.... all that was needed was a baseline prep on sub.. thats it over buff much:) inc flavor of the month


Point

Proven
01/25/2013 03:12 AMPosted by Wicko
AS a 90 rogue, that has been playing since BC as a rogue.... i can say that pre patch we are fine.... all that was needed was a baseline prep on sub.. thats it over buff much:) inc flavor of the month


Call me crazy but I would rather Rogue CDs being balanced around being actual CDs. You cannot simply throw Preparation out to every Rogue in a wild free-for-all fashion without going back and closely researching each and every skill it affects if you have any expectation of things being even close to balanced.

Since Preparation was a talent choice at the start of MoP, we can (for better or worse) assume Rogue CDs have been balanced around the expectation not everyone will take Preparation. That alone I find comical as you are creating a near impossible task doing so. But now since Preparation is being dished out wholesale, we have the ability to reset the CDs of some very powerful skills that were not all intended to have said CD reset at whim.

Mark my words, this whole situation is going to be a tragic comedy of errors next patch and the sad part is I think Blizzard are smart enough to know that yet plowing ahead full-steam anyway. Placing any idea of a fair PvP playing field behind that of some arbitrary representation numbers just seems like sheer madness to me but that is pretty much what we are going to see short of divine intervention and a serious outbreak of common sense among the development round table. Call me cynical but I am not holding my breath on either occurring in time.
Worth mentioning: Shuriken Toss shouldn't be proccing non-lethal poisons. It is intended to be an ability that allows Rogues to continue to apply some pressure even after being peeled, though. That's part of the reason it was re-designed this way.

We’ll continue to keep an eye on balance, but (post-fix) we feel it’s a good option compared with other Rogue level 90 talents


Oh jeez here we go again with this "guy" posting a response to something he has no idea about.
Soon we will see a real response saying how Daxxarri was looking at "something else" and his butt will be covered yet again.

Its sad how this keeps happening maybe you (Dax) should follow up with people outside your group who actually know whats going on bud hmmm?
Surprised nobody is complaining about deadly throw. I'd hate to be a caster/healer getting trained by a rogue with that.

Don't have access to the PTR (it's stuck in failaclysm)...anybody mind updating me?
01/25/2013 03:31 AMPosted by Rolent
Its sad how this keeps happening maybe you (Dax) should follow up with people outside your group who actually know whats going on bud hmmm?


He's the only one who converses with us on these forums, show him some respect. He corrected himself afterward, what is it you want to complain about? Have some respect for the one person who goes out of his way to address our concerns.
Surprised nobody is complaining about deadly throw. I'd hate to be a caster/healer getting trained by a rogue with that.

Don't have access to the PTR (it's stuck in failaclysm)...anybody mind updating me?


Deadly throw kinda sucks, it has travel time so it's hard to lock people out with it

As well as that not having combat readiness is brutal
more rogue buffs on ptr?

priest lvl 90 talent halo will no longer break stealth, energy cost on kick completely removed.
01/25/2013 04:37 AMPosted by Xpotiòn
priest lvl 90 talent halo will no longer break stealth,


It was very easy to dodge to begin with lol

01/25/2013 04:37 AMPosted by Xpotiòn
energy cost on kick completely removed.


Not surprised tbh. It's more of an annoyance than a hinderance.

Deadly throw kinda sucks, it has travel time so it's hard to lock people out with it

As well as that not having combat readiness is brutal


Ah, that makes sense lol. Fair enough
Well, a couple of things. I've played rogue since vanilla (I know, we all say that, right?) and my experience has always been we start out a bit weak and then burst out of the gate towards the end of expacs due to scaling issues. I'm not saying that's the right way to do it, but merely saying maybe some of the concern about rogue on live is over-stated. Haven't been on the PTR but trust that at least half these people who are concerned are right. No class wants a nerf and hard counters hate to see natural predators getting a buff.

Adding Prep back as baseline is a start but I expect some iteration on what is on the reset. It becomes pointless if you don't add class survivability to the CD. Of course, in the hands of gladiator rogues the class is always going to seem frustrating to play against but that would be true of ANY class in the game.

To close, a list of nerfs to rogue pre-expac that I blatantly copy-pasted:

) Ambush +60% crit chance talent removed, overall damage of ability also reduced Backstab +30% crit chance talent removed, overall damage of ability also reduced Mutilate +30% crit chance talent removed, overall damage of ability also reduced

2) Shiv can now be dodged and parried and has a 10 sec CD, energy cost increased to 20

3)+15% healing received from Fleet Footed completely removed

4)Crippling Poison speed reduction went from 70% to 50%

5)Evasion CD increased from 2 to 3 mins

6)Choose Between Prep and Shadowstep (Biggest Nerf Ever)

7)Shadowstep doesn't give you Extra Damage

8)Sanguinary Veins reduced from 20%-16%

9)Gouge doesn't Award Combo Points

10)Improved Recup Removed

11)Combat Readiness is now a talent (vs other great talents)

12)Cheat Death is now a talent(vs other great talents)
Due to a miscommunication, I included some incorrect information in my opening post in this thread, Shuriken Toss shouldn't be proccing non-lethal poisons like Crippling or Paralytic. It will continue to activate damaging poisons.


If it can't proc non-lethal, then don't change it at all. Deadly throw or even just being able to poison our thrown weapons with crippling has been huge for rogues. It's a fun mechanic. It gives us something to do in roots. It really helps us out and makes us feel like we're doing something for our arena team even while we can't connect with a target. Please give us a way to apply non-lethal (or crippling or just a slow (like deadly throw (without making me choose between it and my only effective anti-warrior defensive CD))) at range.

The QQ about prepped cloak of shadows is legit. I don't think we need double cloak. I'd rather not get nerfed later because of it, so lets take that away right now.

I think the glove bonus to recup is a good change in the right direction. I liked the 85 talents that reduced damage taken (6%) while using recup. Think about that as a way to help out our survival. Maybe put this as a bonus on a talent that people take less often?
Shuriken not proccing non-lethals is the WORST change ever.

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