Gallywix

Story Forum

When have Alliance races ever used slavery for combat purposes?


Off-hand I can think of three:
Blackmoore used orcs as gladiators.


Strike one.

Only Thrall was used as a gladiator, and his slave-status was largely due to orcs having no formal place in Alliance society following the Second War; they were effectively a prisoner race, and as such nobody quite knew what to do with them, whether they had any manner of rights (remember that we're talking about a late-medieval/early-renaissaince manner of civilization here) or whether they should even be kept alive.

'Tides of Darkness' (I believe, it may have been one of the mangas) mentions that aside from Thrall gladiators were by and large in it for the money, and fights were rarely fatal. (This is in contrast, of course, to the Crimson Ring which openly embraced wide-scale slavery and to-the-death fights.)

Lakeshire officials had the player use some kind of a magical stone to mind-control an Ettin to kill gnolls.


Strike two.

The mind-control orb is taken from the gnolls to begin with, and the actual quest once you pick it up is simply to get the ettin to get the big rock off the foreman in Lakeshire - killing gnolls is ancilliary (one might even presume the ettin is helping us kill them now that he's no longer under their influence). Once that's done the ettin says goodbye and runs off into the wilderness, so it's questionable how much control the player had (or exerted) anyway, beyond making the ettin non-agressive towards them.

A captured Steamwheedle zeppelin captain was forced to use his passenger/transport zeppelin as a bombing run vessel that the Alliance used against pirates.


Strike three.

Actually, I'll let you take a ball on this one, although just for nitpickings' own sake I'd like to note that the goblin in question isn't actually flagged as a Steamwheedle, and goblins from other cartels have been Horde-friendly since vanilla such as the engineering trainers.

What's going on with Harrowmeiser is actually a case much closer to impressment.

I'm a prisoner!

They shot me and my beautiful zeppelin out of the sky. And what for? Because I was ferrying men and materiel for the Horde? That's nothing new!

Now they have me running her in circles around the bay so that they can bomb the pirates. I just don't have the parts to keep her going like this! I'm barely keeping her together on spit and bailing wire!


For the cliffs' notes version of impressment-

Impressment, colloquially, "the Press", refers to the act of taking men into a navy by force and with or without notice. It was used by the Royal Navy, beginning in 1664 and during the 18th and early 19th centuries, in wartime, as a means of crewing warships, although legal sanction for the practice goes back to the time of Edward I of England. The Royal Navy impressed many merchant sailors, as well as some sailors from other nations. People liable to impressment were "eligible men of seafaring habits between the ages of 18 and 45 years". Non-seamen were impressed as well, though rarely.

Impressment was strongly criticized by those who believed it to be contrary to the British constitution; at the time, unlike many of its continental rivals, Britain did not conscript its subjects for any other military service, aside from a brief experiment with army impressment in 1778 to 1780. Though the public opposed conscription in general, impressment was repeatedly upheld by the courts, as it was deemed vital to the strength of the navy and, by extension, to the survival of the realm.


Now, why do I make the distinction between slavery and impressment?

Two reasons-

One, the case in Howling Fjord is clearly that of the Alliance attempting to shore up an embattled position using any means at their disposal, including the use of a captured ship since they'd lost their own nearby fleet (to the Forsaken or to the pirates). In other words, something of an emergency situation, "desperate times call for desperate measures." A little grey on the Alliance's white? Yes, but not something done as a matter of course.

Two, remember what slavery is. Slavery is an institutionalized trade in which human beings (let's use the term 'sentient beings' in WoW) can be legally bought and sold. What's happening to Harrowmeiser would probably fall under the 'forced labor' clause of slavery, but it's a far cry from him being purchased, sold, or put up for auction at the end of the day.

Moreover, it actually occurs to me rather belatedly that you used him as an example of the Alliance using slaves for combat.

So I am going to give you that strike after all - Harrowmeiser isn't being sent into combat, he's chained up at the dock with his guards to run maintenance on his ship when it comes in from a bombing run.

Three strikes, you're out.
Didn't the Alliance use ogre gladiators?

I really some how doubt the ogres were in it for the money.

02/01/2013 05:48 AMPosted by Kurze
he's chained up at the dock with his guards to run maintenance on his ship when it comes in from a bombing run.


So, the goblin is being forced by the Alliance to fix his zeppelin while chained up as the Alliance uses his ship to bomb pirates. With no pay.

Unless he is being paid and I missed that, I think that might take one small step into slavery.
Didn't the Alliance use ogre gladiators?

I really some how doubt the ogres were in it for the money.


An ogre would probably take big meals for payment. Beat up one orc? Earn one cow!

More seriously, aside from the one ogre that showed up to fight Thrall I don't believe nonhuman gladiators were ever mentioned again. So, *shrug.* It certainly wasn't under Blackmoore's jusidiction, since when it walked out holding a spear he whined about someone giving it a weapon.

So, the goblin is being forced by the Alliance to fix his zeppelin while chained up as the Alliance uses his ship to bomb pirates. With no pay.

Unless he is being paid and I missed that, I think that might take one small step into slavery.


As I said above, it certainly fits the idea of impressment and edges into the realm of forced labor. A stain of grey on the Alliance's white, if an understandable one.

But either way, he's not being sent into combat, which is what Khass was implying.
Two, remember what slavery is. Slavery is an institutionalized trade in which human beings (let's use the term 'sentient beings' in WoW) can be legally bought and sold. What's happening to Harrowmeiser would probably fall under the 'forced labor' clause of slavery, but it's a far cry from him being purchased, sold, or put up for auction at the end of the day.


Going by that definition... I can't think of any instance where either side has *really* used "slavery" then. There aren't too many 'evil' side factions I can think of who have done it either then, or maybe I haven't been looking hard enough at what's being sold on that Pandaren black market...

Oh wait, there is one instance: The Taunka that was enslaved as a gladiator by some orcs was 'purchased'. Though, on the other hand, had he not been purchased, he would've been executed after being caught stealing Horde supplies (especially after it was discovered that the reason he was in Kalimindor to begin with was because he had committed some horrible crime in Northrend that had caused the other Taunka to banish him)... so I guess he should count himself lucky to be a slave in that instance.

Qreslix:
How'bout we just off'em instead?

That works too. My main beef is that Thrall's decision to allow him to regain control of the Bilgewater was never really explained or justified (especially considering he had *just* tried to kill Thrall and the player personally). Unfortunately, the more I look at it, the more I realize just how many loopholes there are in the Bilgewater storyline.

I think what surprised me most about the ending of the goblin starter area was that Sassy Hardwrench didn't become the new leader, because (personally) I felt the story had been setting her up that way. Especially considering she has all the characteristics that would be expected of a Bilgewater leader:
She's crazy
She's efficient
She's surprisingly loyal
She loves money
She's street-smart
She's resourceful
She's impatient
She's tough
She's diplomatic
...and she's a huge fan of rickety machines rigged with explosive weaponry.
What's not to love?
01/29/2013 08:40 AMPosted by Khass
I was wondering how long it would be before I got a post from our local Alliance fanboy Gandred.


You know, these forums may be overrun by a small group of vocal Alliance fans... but posts like this are simply rude and don't make you sound better in any possible way.

I wouldn't really call Gandred an Alliance fanboy either. More like a Night Elf fanboy which normally stays out of threads that don't concern Night Elves... like this one.

It just seems like you lifted your guns and decided to shoot first before giving someone a chance for a reasoned discourse. That's something that should be frowned on here and it only servers to ruin threads without even needing Alliance whiners to do such.

Now as far as the topic goes I personally don't care what happens to Gallywix. Venture Co. fits him but it would depend on whether he would be in a worse position than he is with the Bilgewater. Maybe Blizzard should instead throw a bone and redeem a Horde character rather than killing him off because Gallywix does have some cool factor to him.
That works too. My main beef is that Thrall's decision to allow him to regain control of the Bilgewater was never really explained or justified (especially considering he had *just* tried to kill Thrall and the player personally). Unfortunately, the more I look at it, the more I realize just how many loopholes there are in the Bilgewater storyline.

I think what surprised me most about the ending of the goblin starter area was that Sassy Hardwrench didn't become the new leader, because (personally) I felt the story had been setting her up that way. Especially considering she has all the characteristics that would be expected of a Bilgewater leader:
She's crazy
She's efficient
She's surprisingly loyal
She loves money
She's street-smart
She's resourceful
She's impatient
She's tough
She's diplomatic
...and she's a huge fan of rickety machines rigged with explosive weaponry.
What's not to love?


Agreed.

One thing I'd find absolutely hilarious is if Gallywix ends up siding with Garrosh, only to realize he's not on the winning side after we beat him down in the Siege of Orgrimmar raid. Then this happens:

Trade Prince Gallywix yells: Uncle! Uncle! I give! You guys are too much for me!
Trade Prince Gallywix yells: I'm beaten. You've shown me the error of my ways. From here on out, I promise to- *STABBED* *DIES*
Thrall: Why did you do that?
Vol'jin: Dat had to be da most insincere apology I have eva' heard. He really be expectin' us to believe it?
Thrall: Well there was this one time on the Lost Isles...
Vol'jin: Now where is dat little boss lady, da cartel be needin' a new leader.
I honestly think Gallywix should be steering financial sabotage behind the scenes. Thousands of gold pieces sent from Stormwind's bank to some account in Gadgetzan, all because of a few misplaced withdrawal slips.
OP, as the Horde stands in it's current state in game, do any Horde races besides orcs have any reason to be loyal to it? Not just goblins lol.
The problem is that all of his assets are tied up in the Bilgewater Cartel. What exactly could he offer the Venture Co. to justify this high ranking position?

No, I think the appropriate place for Gallywix is as Boss 3 in the new "Siege of Orgrimmar" raid.
02/04/2013 05:53 PMPosted by Grimtale
Maybe Blizzard should instead throw a bone and redeem a Horde character rather than killing him off because Gallywix does have some cool factor to him.


I agreed with everything you said except this. I realize I'm probably coming across as unintentionally confrontational here, but what about Gallywix is cool?
It seemed to me he was set up in every way to be dislikable by the players, in a way that was even worse than Garrosh himself. Garrosh is at least a bad !@#, Gallywix hides inside of a mechanical spider tank - a machine I am inclined to believe is of gnome origin. He seems to not only possess all the negative goblin stereotypes, but he seems to lack in all the more or less positive ones as well.

Everything in the storyline seemed to scream: "You are supposed to hate this guy!"

That works too. My main beef is that Thrall's decision to allow him to regain control of the Bilgewater was never really explained or justified (especially considering he had *just* tried to kill Thrall and the player personally). Unfortunately, the more I look at it, the more I realize just how many loopholes there are in the Bilgewater storyline.

I think what surprised me most about the ending of the goblin starter area was that Sassy Hardwrench didn't become the new leader, because (personally) I felt the story had been setting her up that way. Especially considering she has all the characteristics that would be expected of a Bilgewater leader:
She's crazy
She's efficient
She's surprisingly loyal
She loves money
She's street-smart
She's resourceful
She's impatient
She's tough
She's diplomatic
...and she's a huge fan of rickety machines rigged with explosive weaponry.
What's not to love?


Agreed.

One thing I'd find absolutely hilarious is if Gallywix ends up siding with Garrosh, only to realize he's not on the winning side after we beat him down in the Siege of Orgrimmar raid. Then this happens:

Trade Prince Gallywix yells: Uncle! Uncle! I give! You guys are too much for me!
Trade Prince Gallywix yells: I'm beaten. You've shown me the error of my ways. From here on out, I promise to- *STABBED* *DIES*
Thrall: Why did you do that?
Vol'jin: Dat had to be da most insincere apology I have eva' heard. He really be expectin' us to believe it?
Thrall: Well there was this one time on the Lost Isles...
Vol'jin: Now where is dat little boss lady, da cartel be needin' a new leader.


I don't know about Vol'jin being the one to kill him, but otherwise... YES.
02/05/2013 04:18 PMPosted by Khass
I don't know about Vol'jin being the one to kill him, but otherwise... YES.


That would be a trrrrble idea, just trrrrble. It should be handled by Goblins on Horde and Gnomes on Alliance. I really don't care which side is cannon I just want Sassy or Mida as my leader.
02/05/2013 04:45 PMPosted by Searik
I don't know about Vol'jin being the one to kill him, but otherwise... YES.


That would be a trrrrble idea, just trrrrble. It should be handled by Goblins on Horde and Gnomes on Alliance. I really don't care which side is cannon I just want Sassy or Mida as my leader.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

Sassy, Mida, Uncle Bedlam and several other goblins all seem to have potential as new leaders, but only Sassy has been developed personality-wise unfortunately.
02/07/2013 03:31 PMPosted by Khass


That would be a trrrrble idea, just trrrrble. It should be handled by Goblins on Horde and Gnomes on Alliance. I really don't care which side is cannon I just want Sassy or Mida as my leader.


Yeah, that's what I was thinking.

Sassy, Mida, Uncle Bedlam and several other goblins all seem to have potential as new leaders, but only Sassy has been developed personality-wise unfortunately.


Mida was actually fan-created from a thread a while back... power of the forums manifested into the game. It would be cool if she was made into a boss.
I remember that thread,

I am really not a fan of her, to much fab and fanwank in her background.
It felt I should have contracted herbes by reading it.
02/05/2013 02:19 AMPosted by Dorcy
No, I think the appropriate place for Gallywix is as Boss 3 in the new "Siege of Orgrimmar" raid.


Here here!
I was out exploring the Barrens, mostly just gathering Briarthorn and killing the occasional hot shot trying to kill Horde quest givers, when I found a Venture Co. outpost I'd never actually explored close to their sludge lake one. Two things I thought worth noting: There are "forsaken" members referred to as "mutated" Venture Co. workers, suggesting that other Venture Co. Forsaken (such as the ones in Grizzly Hills that look exactly the same as these guys) might not be Forsaken at all themselves, but just mutants who were at Venture Bay when the Alliance and the Horde both invaded it.

Anyways, the second thing I noticed that was curious, and more pertinent to this topic, was this guy at the top of the tower:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i220/Xanofar/World%20of%20Warcraft/GallywixVentureCo_zpsb4fa15c6.png
http://www.wowhead.com/npc=7288
It doesn't prove anything, but it does open up some curious possibilities (and might explain Gallywix's Venture Co-style of doing things).
One thing I'd find absolutely hilarious is if Gallywix ends up siding with Garrosh, only to realize he's not on the winning side after we beat him down in the Siege of Orgrimmar raid. Then this happens:

Trade Prince Gallywix yells: Uncle! Uncle! I give! You guys are too much for me!
Trade Prince Gallywix yells: I'm beaten. You've shown me the error of my ways. From here on out, I promise to- *STABBED* *DIES*
Thrall: Why did you do that?
Vol'jin: Dat had to be da most insincere apology I have eva' heard. He really be expectin' us to believe it?
Thrall: Well there was this one time on the Lost Isles...
Vol'jin: Now where is dat little boss lady, da cartel be needin' a new leader.


i don't know who would be best to kill him, but I lol'd at Vol'jin's reason for killing him :-)

another reason why Vol'jin would make a good warchief

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