Possible Hand of Sacrifice buff for Ret

Paladin
01/30/2013 06:56 PMPosted by Lobster
Actually you may be able to use it to dispel debuffs in PVE


That will be a nice side effect.

01/30/2013 07:04 PMPosted by Hafleur
Just a couple things to think about. :)


The buff is all well and good and perhaps it will make Ret more desirable when compared to other melee but the stated intent of it was to bring more differentiation from Holy Paladins.

It doesn't do that.
The buff is all well and good and perhaps it will make Ret more desirable when compared to other melee but the stated intent of it was to bring more differentiation from Holy Paladins.

It doesn't do that.

The direct quote was "We agree that Retribution does not offer enough benefits to an Arena or Battleground team beyond just taking a Holy paladin." With this change, arena teams could bring a Ret for cross dispels on the healer (aka double defensive dispel) -- that's not something Holy Paladins bring. As for RBG's, consider my CTF offense idea.

I have no idea whether this is the right change, but I think Rets have been too quick to jump to the conclusion that it's the wrong one. Let's digest it.
At first I instantly thought..ew another gimmicky ability in blizzards half !@# attempts to seem like they are working on rets. Overall I think its a start in the right direction, but would still love to see some slight minor changes. We don't need anything major, just a few tweaks. I always loved playing my ret as a major support role in pvp. Lets see what happens.

-Sakred
Hafleur,
I totally agree with the arena statement tho I think our numbers still need some tweaking to really make us more viable..
For rbgs tho..
While I understand the idea of two hybrids pushing offense and putting 3 healers on D..
As far as my experience, although a hell of a lot lower than yours.. From 1700-2100 mmr, majority of CTF maps I have played tend to be two 10man teams sitting just off center of the middle of map waiting for 3 stacks before pushing the enemy fc..
Unless extremely confident in the ability of your 6 dps or a large sum of stacks, I kinda fail to see how your strat would work..
Unless if maybe the enemy was caught on a split Rez but that seems very situational to me.
Would love to hear more detail in your thinking..
Perhaps more of an explanation?

It's good that bliz is looking at making ret more viable tho I don't see how we are going to outshine caster dps or dks/rogues come 5.2..
01/30/2013 08:52 PMPosted by Daemonism
t's good that bliz is looking at making ret more viable tho I don't see how we are going to outshine caster dps or dks/rogues come 5.2..


We don't need to "Outshine" the other melee. We just need to have a spell that gives raid leaders a good enough reason to bring us. I'm ok with being a second viable option at this point. That's way better then, "nah lets just wait another hour or call the raid rather then bring a ret in."

That being said, the buff to Sac isn't good enough to accomplish that goal. We definitely need something better.

Some ideas here
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7764437127
I think it's amazing that after 4.0 and the removal of the defensive dispel from Rets (which was part of series of nerfs that broke the spec), that we now get it back in another form... so much for progress, no offence to the Dev's - but seriously???

Anyway - I agree with Hoff, it's a reasonable change that needs to be tested and digested - won't be game breaking (good thing) but opens up some extra synergy with healers, I think though, that Ret needs something else... another tool... And with the amount of stuns in the game, Ret only HoF stun removal should make a return as well maybe increase the CD of HoF to off-set it... a slight sustained damage increase would be nice too (not hopeful - but i can dream), but I think Ret could be in a really decent spot with stun removal on HoF and this change to HoSac.
I see it as a step in the right direction. I have always liked the idea of ret being a battle healer and this change would go with that.

Also, hand of purity just needs to go, imo. It is way to situational in pvp and, i assume, pve as well. In fact, the only time i have used hand of purity was vs an aff loc/spriest team in 2s. I cant think of a fight in pve to use it on but maybe galaron? That is well beyond situational to me. The skill needs to be replaced imo.

At the very, very least blizz says they are looking into rets issues. Which is nice. Minimal, but nice.
for RBGs its not a big upgrade..... but for arena its freaking HUGE !
01/30/2013 09:17 PMPosted by Lobster
We don't need to "Outshine" the other melee. We just need to have a spell that gives raid leaders a good enough reason to bring us. I'm ok with being a second viable option at this point. That's way better then, "nah lets just wait another hour or call the raid rather then bring a ret in."

That sounds like a personal problem, not a problem with the spec lol.


Shut up Lobster, you're terrible.
Stop calling others bad, rets aren't any where near the best melee for RBGs.
Hafleur,
I totally agree with the arena statement tho I think our numbers still need some tweaking to really make us more viable..
For rbgs tho..
While I understand the idea of two hybrids pushing offense and putting 3 healers on D..
As far as my experience, although a hell of a lot lower than yours.. From 1700-2100 mmr, majority of CTF maps I have played tend to be two 10man teams sitting just off center of the middle of map waiting for 3 stacks before pushing the enemy fc..
Unless extremely confident in the ability of your 6 dps or a large sum of stacks, I kinda fail to see how your strat would work..
Unless if maybe the enemy was caught on a split Rez but that seems very situational to me.
Would love to hear more detail in your thinking..
Perhaps more of an explanation?

That's true that teams often stay as one group waiting for the debuff to stack, but once it gets high enough they split into two groups, offense and defense. You can't have your FC sit in middle forever.

You've had a different experience in CTF? I played 2.6k RBG's in S9 and S10, but I'll grant you that I only recently started playing 'em again.
What effect will it give someone who spell steals it
If it removes magical effects like cyclone/fear then ill be impressed.

Until then I hardly think a 2 min CD ability even with clemency is enough to constitute a RBG position.
01/30/2013 10:28 PMPosted by Tenacius
What effect will it give someone who spell steals it


Probably nothing, except maybe the 30% damage reduction. I'm assuming the initial usage clears the magic debuff. Unless, if it provides debuff immunity for that duration, that'd be pretty amazing (but I doubt it).

Thing is, PTR's been so volatile that I don't expect it to last as is in its current iteration, but it's pretty heartening to know that Blizzard's at least thinking about us, despite the naysayers saying Blizzard never gives Ret love.

Course, if we get nothing (and I mean FoL getting reverted, too) during 5.2 I'll eat my words personally.
If it removes magical effects like cyclone/fear then ill be impressed.

Until then I hardly think a 2 min CD ability even with clemency is enough to constitute a RBG position.

Cyclone's not a magic effect. Nothing can dispel it.

Most fears are magic effects, though, and can be dispelled. I think the only player one that isn't dispellable is Intimidating Shout.
01/30/2013 08:29 PMPosted by Hafleur
I have no idea whether this is the right change, but I think Rets have been too quick to jump to the conclusion that it's the wrong one. Let's digest it.


Point taken.
01/30/2013 10:07 PMPosted by Solvexx

That sounds like a personal problem, not a problem with the spec lol.


Shut up Lobster, you're terrible.
Stop calling others bad, rets aren't any where near the best melee for RBGs.


Dayum, it's on!
Put it on Salv, not on Sacrifice. With Sac, we have to choose whether to dispel someone or reduce their damage intake. If only one or the other is needed, we're wasting a feature of the cooldown that we won't get back for another 2 min.

Presently, Salv has no PvP purpose other than to get a pet off somebody. Adding the dispel to Salv would be a better option.

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