Shadow Orb Generation Out of Combat Part III

Priest
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I would like to see for shadowpriest, some sort of CD where you can generate 3 full shadow orbs. There could be so much potential with shadow orb, for example,
- 3 orbs is an instant cast for flash heal (doesn't break you out of shadow)
- increases bubble by per orb by 20%
- if you use orbs with fear, it applies a movement reducing effect 20% per orb after fear ends
- useing orbs, you can mindblast additional targets 1 additonal target, per orb
- use orbs to strengthen your shadowfiend dmg

there is alot of potential out there to make shadow priest a fun class. Was just brainstorming stuff.


That is exactly why I am a proponent of the shadow orb generation out of combat implementation.

That is the strongest arguement we have for its implementation. It just paves the way for common-sense implementations down the road. My research on #95 of Tread 2 indicates if we link our shadow orbs to any healing effects or abilities, we could justifyably be slapped with a shadow orb degeneration over time mechanic, like the Destruction specialization.

Its best not to link anything to healing, especially now that Blizzard is crying bloody murder.

What pisses me off the most about this is Ghostcrawler's tweet that priest utility needed nerfs. He didn't even say they need balancing. His exact words were, iirc, "can we get some nerfs to shadow priest utility already?" How unprofessional is that? Is WoW only in existence so that Ghostcrawler can play his mage? He should at least pretend to be neutral, but that is just blatantly biased. As a game developer does he not care about the final product that he puts time into? I never thought I'd abhor someone more than Nancy Pelosi, but he's really giving her a run for her money.


Because this is totally an accurate representation of Blizzard's development process.
Because this is totally an accurate representation of Blizzard's development process.


Regardless if thats how they do it or not, we have to incite something meaningful now.

If we falter and fail on this mission, there will only be dark days ahead of us.

I for one refuse to relive Wrath of the Lich King and Cataclysm.
Vote Like!
priests...

the new shamans.

if these changes go live, it just proves that GC and the rest of the game "balance" team are all concrete licking idiots...

shadow priest damage is far below average, how can we fix it?

NERF IF TO THE GROUND!!! that should fix it.
01/31/2013 07:22 AMPosted by Dreamskull
Because this is totally an accurate representation of Blizzard's development process.


Regardless if thats how they do it or not, we have to incite something meaningful now.

If we falter and fail on this mission, there will only be dark days ahead of us.

I for one refuse to relive Wrath of the Lich King and Cataclysm.


Being loud and obnoxious doesn't cause class change.
01/31/2013 04:03 AMPosted by Maou
sorry my english is poor i am brazilian


hawt

01/31/2013 07:51 AMPosted by Nixxe
Being loud and obnoxious doesn't cause class change.


I understand that, but I needed to vent and this thread gave me the venue. Thanks for reading :)
Hey man, let the ideas flow.

We've already got the case made for the shadow orb generation out of combat implementation.
Without our ability to heal others on our team we need more mobility and survival. They are nerfing both of those.

Making VT instant cast and taking PH off the orbs keeping a 30 - 45 sec cd would help a lot. Our dot damage is pretty weak compared to other classes so I don't think it would be game breakingly op and it would go a long way to improve our situation.
Without our ability to heal others on our team we need more mobility and survival. They are nerfing both of those.

Making VT instant cast and taking PH off the orbs keeping a 30 - 45 sec cd would help a lot. Our dot damage is pretty weak compared to other classes so I don't think it would be game breakingly op and it would go a long way to improve our situation.


Forget healing others players. PvE and PvP shadow priests were designed to melt faces.

Although it is a interesting mechanic direction, we can offer much more to ourselves and our team than off-heals. Let of-heals take a step back. I don't want to even think about the shadow orb degeneration over time mechanic.

1. We need to revert the changes made to Phantasm and Glyph of Mind Spike.
2. Dispersion needs CC immunity during its duration.
3. We need the shadow orb generation out of combat implementation.

If they did that, I would accept the other nerfs as "fair" and "balanced."
It would be nice, but I have a feeling we aren't going to get much. Blue's posting on forums is directly opening themselves to a massive broadside of rage.

Honestly, I don't think the developers are playing anymore. They seem content to look at numbers and say, let's change this and see what happens. Harsh? Yes. But it just doesn't feel like they play anymore. D:
We desire a place at the gaming table!

Learn to play shadow priests so we don't get a bad design!

The Wrath of the Lich King and Cataclysm facemelting eras are over!
01/31/2013 11:40 AMPosted by Dreamskull
Forget healing others players. PvE and PvP shadow priests were designed to melt faces.


That's what I'm saying. The only reason shadow was viable at all this season was because of it's ability to off heal. It certainly wasn't our "burst", survivability, peals, or cc. If you want burst get a frost mage, if you want cc get a frost mage, if you want peals get a frost mage. If you want off heals grab a shadow priest. Now, though, that's over. Which is fine if we were actually able to melt face but we aren't without a lot of team support. We are like glass squirt guns.

I'd almost be happy with them reverting all of the MoP changes. The orb RNG did suck, but it's not like we aren't dependent on RNG this time around, either. That playstyle was much more dynamic than it is now, and it wasn't really even that dynamic back then. Just shows how blah it currently is.

The best thing they could do is get rid of orbs completely. It's a terrible system and right now it's worse than ret pally holy power generation in Cata, which was pretty much crap. One of the biggest reasons they implemented orbs was to give shadow priests a sense of being shadow before they got shadowform, which is a moot point now that you get shadow orbs 3 lvls before shadowform.
01/31/2013 12:20 PMPosted by Kòtowari
Forget healing others players. PvE and PvP shadow priests were designed to melt faces.


That's what I'm saying. The only reason shadow was viable at all this season was because of it's ability to off heal. It certainly wasn't our "burst", survivability, peals, or cc. If you want burst get a frost mage, if you want cc get a frost mage, if you want peals get a frost mage. If you want off heals grab a shadow priest. Now, though, that's over. Which is fine if we were actually able to melt face but we aren't without a lot of team support. We are like glass squirt guns.

I'd almost be happy with them reverting all of the MoP changes. The orb RNG did suck, but it's not like we aren't dependent on RNG this time around, either. That playstyle was much more dynamic than it is now, and it wasn't really even that dynamic back then. Just shows how blah it currently is.

The best thing they could do is get rid of orbs completely. It's a terrible system and right now it's worse than ret pally holy power generation in Cata, which was pretty much crap. One of the biggest reasons they implemented orbs was to give shadow priests a sense of being shadow before they got shadowform, which is a moot point now that you get shadow orbs 3 lvls before shadowform.

If you think our healing is why we were viable this season, then I can't truly believe that you've even played shadow for 1 arena game this season. Our off heals were just a plus. It was our utility via Void Shift/Leap of Faith/PoMs+Shields+Renew/Mass Dispel and our cc that makes us viable.


That's what I'm saying. The only reason shadow was viable at all this season was because of it's ability to off heal. It certainly wasn't our "burst", survivability, peals, or cc. If you want burst get a frost mage, if you want cc get a frost mage, if you want peals get a frost mage. If you want off heals grab a shadow priest. Now, though, that's over. Which is fine if we were actually able to melt face but we aren't without a lot of team support. We are like glass squirt guns.

I'd almost be happy with them reverting all of the MoP changes. The orb RNG did suck, but it's not like we aren't dependent on RNG this time around, either. That playstyle was much more dynamic than it is now, and it wasn't really even that dynamic back then. Just shows how blah it currently is.

The best thing they could do is get rid of orbs completely. It's a terrible system and right now it's worse than ret pally holy power generation in Cata, which was pretty much crap. One of the biggest reasons they implemented orbs was to give shadow priests a sense of being shadow before they got shadowform, which is a moot point now that you get shadow orbs 3 lvls before shadowform.

If you think our healing is why we were viable this season, then I can't truly believe that you've even played shadow for 1 arena game this season. Our off heals were just a plus. It was our utility via Void Shift/Leap of Faith/PoMs+Shields+Renew/Mass Dispel and our cc that makes us viable.


Exactly, you are correct.

Its our ultility that makes us good. The shadow orb generation out of combat implementation would help to augment our abilities and keep us on top of thoee nerfs. Like was said earlier, there is a lot of fun built into the shadow specializatin.

We just need a solid direction to unlock its hidden potential.
01/31/2013 12:29 PMPosted by Jaosix
It was our utility via Void Shift/Leap of Faith/PoMs+Shields+Renew/Mass Dispel and our cc that makes us viable


Most of the spells you mentioned are heals. You could say the bulk of our "utility" was in the form of off heals.
It was our utility via Void Shift/Leap of Faith/PoMs+Shields+Renew/Mass Dispel and our cc that makes us viable


Most of the spells you mentioned are heals. You could say the bulk of our "utility" was in the form of off heals.


Point made.

But I believe we all know what he meant to say.
What he meant to say is the combination of those other things with our off healing capability is what made us viable. Take out our off heals (which is what is going down) and what happens? Most of our utility is gone. Which means? We are brought in for mass dispel and void shift. So as long as you can use those abilities before you are blown up that's fine, right? At least they are still bringing you. Are we really complacent enough to accept that?

My point is that without our off heals we aren't viable. There are plenty of other classes that are much more useful for whatever other roles you are looking for. So if they are taking these things away they need to give us more in the form of pew pew and/or peels. (And if you are talking about psychic horror as a reason people brought a shadow priest I really don't know what to say).
Two things I would like to say, here.

I am -most- concerned with the PvP aspect of Shadow Priests, as opposed to the PvE perspective.

Two things come to mind here, that are -constantly- being discussed (and, my God, the rage that emanates from some of these conversations), that I feel could be slightly changed/fixed, to be tipped in favor of Shadow Priests.

Shadow Orb Generation - yes, it sucks. At least, with one target it does, especially in PvP with interrupts, blanket silences, stuns, general CCs, Line of Sighting, implementing survival, the whole nine yards. My Shadow Priest is specced into "From Darkness, Comes Light" combined with the "Glyph of Mind Spike." It helps a little bit with the interrupts, makes it "safer" to generate Shadow Orbs. All that said, I agree - there needs to be a slight tweak to help Shadow Priests out.

I do have a concern with that, however. Devouring Plague hits like a truck - if we start every fight with a Devouring Plague, that hurts. I wouldn't doubt that, knowing Blizzard, getting to start every fight with an immediate Devouring Plague would mean a nerf to the damage it does, since we'd be "able to use it more."

Mobility - let's face it, Mind Flay is one sucky filler. Woohoo, it slows our target - big freakin' deal. That doesn't help us -at all- if the target is coming after us, and not someone else. So, why not let us move while channeling it? Hell, even if it's only -after- one second of stand-still channeling. Warlocks are going to have Kil'Jaeden's Cunning as a baseline thing, why shouldn't we be able to move when we channel our -only- ability with a slow effect, that doesn't do significant damage, is easily interrupted, and doesn't do anything in regards to generating Shadow Orbs. It's literally a line, between you and your target, that says "interrupt me, please."

Hell, let's take it a step further - why not combine both of these ideas? Scrap the damage on Mind Flay (or modify it to make up for any consequential effects in PvE), and design it to build a stack that lasts 'x' amount of time, and at 'y' stacks gives us a Shadow Orb. If channeled with zero Shadow Orbs, the caster can move while channeling, until at least one Shadow Orb is available to the Shadow Priest. Keep the slow effect.

There.
Now Mind Flay doesn't suck, the slow is worth something, we can still be interrupted, and we don't generate Shadow Orbs at an unreasonably slow rate. If this sounds too overpowered, by all means, modify it as necessary, I don't care. I'm just sick of half of my arena fights consisting of me not getting insta-cast procs, even with all DoTs up on both targets (which is rare, since I usually get bum-rushed), and having to sit on a Mind Flay that doesn't do -anything- for me or my partner. At all. Like, literally, nothing. Right now, as-is, it's a lovely way to get locked out of Shadow spells with interrupts.

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