Subterfuge

Rogue
I want to post on a lot of these threads but keep finding everything I write be some iteration of "No you're wrong".

Shadow Focus is for burst open.

Subterfuge is for when you need to run through AOE to open or would like to CC someone else before opening.
...

Subterfuge is for when you need to run through AOE to open or would like to CC someone else before opening.


Cheapshot all the things!
i feel the same way right now, but it can be some nice burst, plus next patch it will be amazing. im just trying to get use to it atm.
Posted by Ongbak
stand there for 30secs to repool

That's wrong, it would take 7~8 secs with Slice and Dice up

Not sure if idiot or just idiot


LOLOLOLOLOL
Permed your slice - Wait for full energy.

Open with Cheap shot - Hemo hemo -Garrote: Eviscerate.

Add your eng glove into that Eviscerate and this is the highest damage opener out of side of Dancing in the open you can get.

subterfuge takes some getting used to.

But once you've gottan used to it, it's by far one of the most powerful tools for a rogue.

Your restealths are ALWAYS effective. As bleeds/damage wont knock you out, giving you time to open on your target.

Your harder to shut down in your opener, because you're in stealth for half of it.

While Subterfuge is less potent more effective openers. Shadow Focus is for potent Openers where you risk being knocked, or potent restealths where you miss even getting a Find Weakness off of them.

this is all from a Sub pvp PoV around 2100 mmr this season.

Here's an example of Subterfuge opener 5.1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBuHE1V9jJA&list=UUm7BjM7bZGnfmgFJoYX-pGA&index=16

In 5.2 we can add marked for death eviscerate giving us a double eviscerate opener with only MFD being used. Which is going to be sexy. Pool your energy, refresh your slice on your target. and swap with a massive dance (Because you still have it<3)

Not saying anything others have said is wrong. This is just my feelings regarding why Subterfuge is NOT bad. It's very very powerful.
...

Subterfuge is for when you need to run through AOE to open or would like to CC someone else before opening.


Cheapshot all the things!


Oh yeah, Forgot to mention this in my other post.

Vanish becomes a much more powerful tool with Subterfuge as well, letting multi cheap/garrote.

Getting a Restealth can be used to peel in much the same manner.

Over all i feel the utility gained from Subterfuge is almost too good to pass up.

As long as you're effectively managing your energy and combo points.
Energy Pooling Tips:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-tK-H1-6cw&list=UUm7BjM7bZGnfmgFJoYX-pGA&index=4
I like the idea of peeling multiple opponents with Cheapshot & nervestrike, Both stunned both @ sub 50% dmg for 6 seconds, this is easy to do in a subterfuge timer. You flag carrier's will WUV YOU
02/04/2013 04:58 PMPosted by Commboo
Cheapshot,Ambush=stand there for 30secs to repool


Garrote so you don't have to rupture for SV.
He's talking about Arena. You're probably only running Nerve Strike against all caster comps. Maybe some hybrid.

I like the idea of peeling multiple opponents with Cheapshot & nervestrike, Both stunned both @ sub 50% dmg for 6 seconds, this is easy to do in a subterfuge timer. You flag carrier's will WUV YOU
110 energy pool, premed SnD. you have 3 seconds Go! Cheapshot(40 energy), 2 points, ambush(60 energy) 4 points, rupture(cost 25 energy) 80% to give 25 energy, Garrote(45 energy).

energy pool? Probably nothing.
I'm glad people are pointing out the power of control. Vanish/prep subterfuge gives us almost godlike CC, every once in a while. Currently coming to all trees.

edit: brainfart
I like the idea of peeling multiple opponents with Cheapshot & nervestrike, Both stunned both @ sub 50% dmg for 6 seconds, this is easy to do in a subterfuge timer. You flag carrier's will WUV YOU
Plus Cloak and Dagger to every enemy within 30 yards. It's like a controlled Killing Spree from Stealth.
Well, you want to spend 100 energy on one GCD and complain about pooling

Cool, I like that

Since when was cheapshot then ambush one global


Since when did have we ever had to wait 30 seconds to repool our energy? Less exaggeration please.
You want big damage with your ambush with subterfuge?
1. Glyph expose armor
2. Stealth
3. premed
4. SnD
5. Wait for full energy
6. Garotte for SV and Find Weakness
7. Expose armor (with glyph applies all 3 stacks)
8. Ambush
The opener will go something like this in 5.2

Premed SnD
Garrote
Ambx2
That is 165 energy used, 130 from base, 45+ gained from energy regen
Subterfuge Ends
Wait about 1 second
Evis
Marked for Death
Evis

OR
Pred SnD
Garrote
Cheap Shot (assuming PotW)
Amb
thats 145 energy. easily done
Subterfuge ends
Evis
Marked for Death
Evis

After these openers if you especially if you alraedy force Def Cds or trinket do Blind and Sap to reset the DR's and you can do the exact same thing again before your opponent has even got a chance to do anything.

No non-lethals on ST plus the above is makign me leans toward Marked for Death in 5.2.
at least untill 5.2, i will prefer Shadow Focus.

my openers with Shadow Focus are just sooo powerful.


Agreed
This is the most rubbish talent i have ever used


+100 Interwebz
Come 5.2 I'm looking forward to this opener....
Sub Build 130 Energy
Please take note that I am leaving out SnD energy bonus reg to make this a little simpler, but I am still putting it in the prep work. This method and build is designed to kill "players" from stealth while under the effect of Subterfuge without every coming out of stealth.

Prep Work:
Premed > SnD ... wait for energy.

Opener: Full (130 Energy)
0 secs: Shadow Dance > Ambush ( 90 Energy Left )
+10 Energy regen
1 secs: Ambush ( 60 Energy Left )
+10 Energy
2 secs: Evis w/4CP ( 60 Energy Left ) Assuming your 80% chance to proc Relentless Strikes was successful.
+10 Energy
3 secs: Marked for Death > Evis w/5CP > Vanish ( 60 Energy Left ) Subterfuge is also renewed at this point for another 3 seconds.
+10 Energy
4 secs: Ambush ( 30 Energy Left )
+10 Energy
5 secs: Ambush ( 0 Energy Left )
6 secs: Preparation > Vanish

This will let you do 4 Ambushes and 2 Evis after 5 secs and let you stay stealthed the whole time. I would macro this if I were you. NPCs that "would" yell for guards will never do it bc you remain stealthed the whole time. If you can find any flaws and/or would like to improve this, please let me know.
Subterfuge with paralytic poison is strong as well. A lot of times you don't have to cheap shot and they'll be close to full stack when you come out of stealth.

Doing it wrong.

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