Let's take a look at 5.2

Mage
no Kurojushi
02/05/2013 03:38 PMPosted by Rasthen
We'll take these one at a time. At the onset, this looks like a buff, but the numbers behind it tell a different story. The the 3% increase to gain FoF means roughly an extra 2 procs every 2 minutes. This is traded, however, for the extra 1+ FoF procs from the water elemental freeze every 24 seconds. So we end up LOSING 3 FoF procs every 2 minutes, dropping DPS even further.


02/05/2013 05:02 PMPosted by Mistwynd
but countered by removal of water elemental freeze from the raiding rotation.


Ummmm... I'm not sure you guys know what you're talking about here. The only change is that the pet freeze doesnt do damage anymore, but otherwise, it works the exact same as now, rewarding a FoF charge for each target with the freeze, up to the max of 2. It's still in the rotation. It's a negligible nerf to PvE and a nerf/buff to PvP.
02/07/2013 01:43 PMPosted by Mageco
Ummmm... I'm not sure you guys know what you're talking about here. The only change is that the pet freeze doesnt do damage anymore, but otherwise, it works the exact same as now, rewarding a FoF charge for each target with the freeze, up to the max of 2. It's still in the rotation. It's a negligible nerf to PvE and a nerf/buff to PvP.


Water Elemental
Freeze no longer does damage and only provides Fingers of Frost on a successful freeze.


Or are you saying it's working otherwise on the PTR?
02/06/2013 09:39 PMPosted by Garthh
NO SCROCH!? how am i suposssed to keep my mana up


Clear your stacks, maybe?
02/07/2013 02:01 PMPosted by Nyteshadè
Ummmm... I'm not sure you guys know what you're talking about here. The only change is that the pet freeze doesnt do damage anymore, but otherwise, it works the exact same as now, rewarding a FoF charge for each target with the freeze, up to the max of 2. It's still in the rotation. It's a negligible nerf to PvE and a nerf/buff to PvP.


Water Elemental
Freeze no longer does damage and only provides Fingers of Frost on a successful freeze.


Or are you saying it's working otherwise on the PTR?


The note you quoted is exactly what I said it does. It works THE EXACT SAME AS IT DOES NOW, just without the like 5000 damage it does.


Or are you saying it's working otherwise on the PTR?


The note you quoted is exactly what I said it does. It works THE EXACT SAME AS IT DOES NOW, just without the like 5000 damage it does.


Successful freeze meaning it actually froze something. Meaning it doesn't work on bosses. Meaning Frost dps is going down because we can't even use Freeze in PvE. This is why they buffed the FoF proc.
02/08/2013 01:21 PMPosted by Kurojushi
Successful freeze meaning it actually froze something. Meaning it doesn't work on bosses. Meaning Frost dps is going down because we can't even use Freeze in PvE. This is why they buffed the FoF proc.


This.

Theoretically, it's supposed to even out which is fine. I hated having a targetted reticule AoE spell as part of a single target rotation (Same thing goes with RoP).
02/08/2013 01:29 PMPosted by Nyteshadè
Successful freeze meaning it actually froze something. Meaning it doesn't work on bosses. Meaning Frost dps is going down because we can't even use Freeze in PvE. This is why they buffed the FoF proc.


This.

Theoretically, it's supposed to even out which is fine. I hated having a targetted reticule AoE spell as part of a single target rotation (Same thing goes with RoP).


Not sure how I feel about this though. If they bring back Water Jet, that would be cool and fun, but do they want to simplify the Frost Mage rotation or just remove the target ridicule portion but don't have a good solution to fix some of the weirdness with Water Jet? I'm personally still on the fence, and I think Blizzard is too, which is why we haven't heard much about it recently.
All we know is that blizzard devs want to make frost pve viable as they said they would this expansion. To some degree it has worked it seems, but given the record in the past its a tough sell.
I'm liking the look of fire and Arcane PvP in 5.2. Being able to have scorch and PoM/Blazing speed will be nice. I think PoM+FrostJaw is a compelling combo, due to burst potential, and changes to CS.

Arcane seems like it's accidentally gotten better. The buff to Greater Invisibility seems to fit Arcane's playstyle. And being about to have blink, Blazing speed/Ice Floes and Ice Barrier will be immense. The fact that arcane charges have less of a ramp up, AND are individually more powerful will make it easier to burst.


The note you quoted is exactly what I said it does. It works THE EXACT SAME AS IT DOES NOW, just without the like 5000 damage it does.


Successful freeze meaning it actually froze something. Meaning it doesn't work on bosses. Meaning Frost dps is going down because we can't even use Freeze in PvE. This is why they buffed the FoF proc.


Oh wow, now I feel stupid. Thanks for pointing this out to me. I only ever PvP so this never crossed my mind.
Not happy with the Pet Freeze changes. So if someone has freedom, I can no longer use pet freeze to gain a charge to use as a deep freeze? No bueno no bueno.

I do like the improved damage to Frostbolt, as it was difficult to even get a single cast off, let alone 3.
arcane is going to be the same old burn to 30% then evo...rinse/repeat
Successful freeze meaning it actually froze something. Meaning it doesn't work on bosses. Meaning Frost dps is going down because we can't even use Freeze in PvE. This is why they buffed the FoF proc.


This.

Theoretically, it's supposed to even out which is fine. I hated having a targetted reticule AoE spell as part of a single target rotation (Same thing goes with RoP).


Except that the math presented earlier (and I haven't seen math that says otherwise) in the thread suggests that the procs per minute are going to average out to be lower in 5.2 with the changes. Trading a guaranteed proc for a small increased chance to proc is likely to result in an overall DPS loss, especially since we lose scorch from frost as a source of trying to proc FOF while moving.
stand still to do your new nerfed dps or still have to stop and do something else to start doing your nerfed dps again.or continue to play the other 2 crappy specs....

good luck with any of those in todays raiding environment

fix this class the right way blizz ........so far your 5.2 plans are so off the mark its silly

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