DW Frost PvP (Where you all at!!!)

Death Knight
02/08/2013 01:06 PMPosted by Kaliria
This is the main reason why its bad for Blood and Unholy to DW


I thought it was bad for Blood and Unholy to DW mainly because they don't get Threat of Thassarian, so most of their abilities don't hit with the offhand (thus making them suck).


that's what I meant by bad for blood/unholy since only FDK's get ToT baseline(meaning blood/unholy dont benifit from offhand) and Xoss pointed out DW/2H get the same amount healed from DS so I was wrong about the mainhand heal.
I love DW both for the look and the play style in both PVE and PVP.

Anyway, gemming and stats depend on if you want to just go all out offense or defense or a little of both. If you look at me I"m gemmed and reforged for offense. I know it means I die quicker but that's what healers are for. I love doing tons of damage and then dying if I don't have one though.

Anyway of course for DW it's hit to 3%, expertise to 3%, then for offense you want to gem str/pvp power for red, str and mastery for yellow and straight pvp power for blue. Reforge anything you can to mastery, and if it isn't an option then do haste. I left my crit on though since my crit is low, I didn't reforge most of my crit. (not sure if that's good or bad).

Enchanting they say to do strength for everything basically but I did mastery because I like more mastery. MH - windsong enchant, OH - rune of the fallen crusader for weapons.

As far as strats, whehter it's in BGs or arena, I always pop all my offensive CDs straight away and plow into the target me and my teammate(s) have decided to kill. I usually will pop AMS too to absorb some damage since I'm usually targeted first, and Lichborne vs fearers, Frozenblood against wars/rogues so they can't stop my burst. I do this because then I can do my full burst in 10 seconds and nobody can stop it. (until they've destroyed my AMS or 7 seconds is up). I go HB, HB, HB, HB, DnD, FS FS FS FS, then if no death/frost are back up I'll get rid of the last rune with PS if not then I continue with HB, blood tap 2 death runes, HB all the runes, FS FS FS FS FS FS FS etc. I also have RW atm but I'm thinking of trying desecrated ground. With RW though I'm trying to figure out the best time to pop it and I usually do it right when I'm on the person doing my burst.

Willing to take any critisism and comments/tips about these stats and my approach. Anyway if you want to go defense or half d/o, then you just will do Resil in some of those gems instead of PVP power/mastery.

Why do I like HB/FS spam over getting diseases up and then spamming Obliterate?

1.) for the reasons that have already been discussed, some person snares you (which happens a lot in PVP) you can still spam HB and nothing happens to your dps rotation, nothing stops you from your dps rotation as DW frost unless you are out of Death/frost runes or you are completely cc'd/silenced/stunned, which also happens a lot in pvp.

2.) If you talent into chillblains, along with your HB spam you will constantly be doing nice AOE damage to the other team and they will be slowed.

3.) If a caster is running from you, you can keep him slowed without going out of your dps rotation (until you're out of frost/death runes).

4.) Overall damage is tops of any class/spec in pvp and although we dont' wanna be stat hoes, doing all that damage really hurts the other team.

5.) I just love running around spamming HB and if you're not a war/tank you better run like heck from me or when I catch you and spam FS on you, your hp is gonna drop like a rock in the ocean.

6.) I haven't really gotten into necrostrike or DS spam but when I do it will be even more awesome.

7.) Both sub-specs are great. And it's been proven (there's a thread with stats about it), that there are some fights and instances where one is better than the other but at the end of the day, both are equal in damage output.

8.) Since they're equal play what you like.

The ONLY thing I really like about 2h is the burst damage is better and those 130k crits from obliterate are nice and shiny. This is making me want to spend extra conquest to get a 2h and do it from time to time depending on who I'm facing. When I first started dw I thought "wow my damage is weak," but now that I know how to spend my runes/runic power more efficiently, it almost feels like I'm killing things jsut as fast if not faster then when I was using 2h. But that being said I'm always working on thinking and experimenting ways to do even more damage as DW.


Thankx for the feedback. A lot say 2h have nice spike burst since your waiting on that big KM Oblit and for DW we have more constant pressure burst.
I would DW, but dont feel like farming the 2 1h. :/
do u have to have cataclysm to become death knight
I lol'd as soon as there was a debate about using DS for DW Frost DK's.

When there's a debate about something that has nothing to do with your main abilities that you use for that spec then that means someone is reaching as far as they can to support a subpar "style" of play.

This would be the same thing as saying, "Well, if I had a better bat then I'd be a better baseball player." DS is irrelevant as far as proving anything about what obviously needs "proof" because it has none. Sorry, but some things work and some things just don't work. There is a right way and there's a wrong way.

If you're rolling Frost DW then you're gimping yourself. There's no argument about that. It's just a fact that you have to accept. Some people might do it for fun or aesthetic pleasure but when it comes to a comparison to 2H PvP then it falls short in what's needed to be a truly competitive PvPer. Put it this way... DW vs 2H 1v1 in any situation 2H will win that matchup 100% of the time and that should mean something to you.

Now, as far as PvE goes well that doesn't really apply to this thread since the subject title is "DW Frost PvP (Where you all at!!!)

I will say that Frost DW for PvE has been a viable spec since Wotlk with some controversy but that would probably be best left for another thread.

NOTE: I also lol'ed at all the players that are trying hard to support Frost DW because all of them have subpar (well, worse than subpar lol) Arena ratings or never stepped onto an RBG field (I don't think a legit RBG team would even let a Frost DW on their team since most RBG leaders are !@#$'s and that's a sure sign of fail I would think). Not that my ratings are great since I have none right now but I've at least hit 2k's in Arena and 2k's (1990's till I quit WoW because of work to be more accurate) in RBG's at some point in my PvP career. I barely hit 90 a few days ago on this toon so I'll be back in rated gameplay real soon just getting ready for the next season.
02/09/2013 03:33 AMPosted by Fullblooded
I lol'd as soon as there was a debate about using DS for DW Frost DK's.


You miss the point, DW Frost is fun to play bgs and cap arena every week. It works great for that purpose. 2h is boring.

RBG and high arena rating is fine if that's your reason for playing. I just don't like the egos in RBG and a high arena rating takes too much effort.

I play DW Frost for fun.
02/09/2013 06:22 AMPosted by Yap
I play DW Frost for fun.


Nothing wrong with that but I'm referring to players trying to analyze the spec with wrong information almost delusional.

I didn't miss the "point". Nobody here is debating about having "fun". I myself will play DW for FUN from time to time because I got some pretty cool xmogs but I'll never try to tell someone that it's "better" than 2H or even on the same page because it's not in almost every way you can imagine.... with the exception of what the definition of fun is to an individual player.
02/09/2013 06:22 AMPosted by Yap
It works great for that purpose.


No, that does not make sense.

If your purpose in any spec is to Death Strike then roll Blood spec.

Like I mentioned in my first post.... if you're trying to prove or support Frost by telling someone how good DEATH STRIKE is for Frost DW then YOU should quit your DK now because that sir does not justify being FROST! DEATH STRIKE SHOULDN'T BE THE REASON WHY YOU ROLL FROST OR FROST DW. ROLL BLOOD AND THEN YOU CAN DEATH STRIKE ALL YOU WANT! LOL!

Some people just love to fail lol. FFS! LEARN YOUR CLASS! AND SPEC FOR THAT MATTER!
02/09/2013 06:22 AMPosted by Yap
I just don't like the egos in RBG
I believe DW Frost is a preferable option over 2h Frost for RBGs.
02/09/2013 07:30 AMPosted by Fullblooded
It works great for that purpose.


No, that does not make sense.

If your purpose in any spec is to Death Strike then roll Blood spec.

Like I mentioned in my first post.... if you're trying to prove or support Frost by telling someone how good DEATH STRIKE is for Frost DW then YOU should quit your DK now because that sir does not justify being FROST! DEATH STRIKE SHOULDN'T BE THE REASON WHY YOU ROLL FROST OR FROST DW. ROLL BLOOD AND THEN YOU CAN DEATH STRIKE ALL YOU WANT! LOL!

Some people just love to fail lol. FFS! LEARN YOUR CLASS! AND SPEC FOR THAT MATTER!


My post wasn't to show witch playstyle was better but to show Bernhart DW Frost isn't just a 2 button rotation and for the debate about DS was about since FDK's get ToT we still hit w/ our offhand either its DS/FS/PS/Oblit etc.. I've had np getting into RBG's low or high rating RBG's I've seen 2.2k unholy/frost/blood DK's and other class spec's using dreadfull does it mean they know how to play there class or were they carried???? point is it's the way you play your class to know for sure what best fits you. I'm not by far the best DK or claiming I am but I have dueled 2h frost a lot and I could say i was 50/50.
02/09/2013 07:30 AMPosted by Fullblooded
if you're trying to prove or support Frost by telling someone how good DEATH STRIKE


You are missing the point. The argument was that DW provides more burst damage in combination with Death Strike. 2H would completely gimp its damage if it needed to Death Strike while DW would only set up burst by using it.

The argument is exactly the same for any other ability that isn't Obliterate but uses Runes. Because Obliterate shares a resource with most healing/utility abilities, it is much, much more costly to use those abilities for 2H.

Do you worry as 2H about using too many CoI's or Necrotic Strikes? What about that strangulate you want to get off? And every time you think about using a Death Strike, it just means less burst. The opposite is true for DW. You can use all those abilities freely with no resulting loss to your main bursting ability.

Point is... Death strike is just the tip of the iceberg. Every utility ability is better when done by a DW. 2H can burst well, I suppose, but everything else is abysmal. And when you force a 2H to use other abilities to survive or help his team, you just limited his burst. Totally, totally not similarly true for DW.
02/09/2013 01:39 PMPosted by Ønysablet
No, that does not make sense.


You took whatever you want to mean out of context. DW Frost works great for bgs and to get capped in arena. The DS argument was started by another player, but he is right about it. DS is in my rotation now, it does build rune power fast for FS burst. Plus those heals help a lot. I had Oblit in my rotation and find DS works better. My crits on KM using FS is much higher than Oblit was.

Looking forward to test Death Siphon after the patch it out.
02/10/2013 05:47 AMPosted by Yap
No, that does not make sense.


You took whatever you want to mean out of context. DW Frost works great for bgs and to get capped in arena. The DS argument was started by another player, but he is right about it. DS is in my rotation now, it does build rune power fast for FS burst. Plus those heals help a lot. I had Oblit in my rotation and find DS works better. My crits on KM using FS is much higher than Oblit was.

Looking forward to test Death Siphon after the patch it out.


yea in PTR it seems like a good thing to pick up in 5.2 :P
So much interesting information, I'm glad that there are more players that DW. But lets make sure we don't turn this into a biased discussion, Some players prefer DW and others prefer 2h, each have their pros and cons. It really depends on your play style and what you enjoy when it comes to PVP.

Death Siphon should be an interesting talent come 5.2, I really wish it used an unholy rune instead though. But thats just hopeful wishing.

But I look forward to 5.2 with the minor changes!
I'm here for moggin, as I am terrible at pvp. I stopped trying to pvp on a DK in Cata when I felt my armor was about as squishy as wet toilet paper.

p.s. I was in Acherus tonight runeforging and I saw an unholy DK dual wielding at the training dummy. I facepalmed.
So much interesting information, I'm glad that there are more players that DW. But lets make sure we don't turn this into a biased discussion, Some players prefer DW and others prefer 2h, each have their pros and cons. It really depends on your play style and what you enjoy when it comes to PVP.

Death Siphon should be an interesting talent come 5.2, I really wish it used an unholy rune instead though. But thats just hopeful wishing.

But I look forward to 5.2 with the minor changes!


True that!!!
Nice to see you here Cryptus I've followed you for a bit battletag me I would like to group with you at times and learn a few things to better my playstyle... Naglets#1536
2h does better burst, but in every other respect DW is better.

The reason for this is that since DW's main damage comes from Frost Strike, they are free to use their runes for utility instead of damage. DW can spam IT dispel, get decent NS stacks going, and use chains and focus chains more often. Using Blood Tap for the death runes is particularly effective.

Also, when a DK gets peeled, they need to burn runes to get to their target. This means that when they get on target again, they'll have few runes and plenty of RP, which means DW is doing immediate high damage, and 2h is doing lower damage while it waits for runes to come back up. DW will also naturally have better uptime, as when they get peeled, they're more likely to have runes up to shut down their target's mobility, and when they're on target, they can easily spare runes to keep their target immobile.

Remember for DK's, runes equal utility. When your damage and utility both come from the same source, you're gimping yourself. DW has better sustained damage, better utility, and better uptime.
02/09/2013 03:33 AMPosted by Fullblooded
If you're rolling Frost DW then you're gimping yourself. There's no argument about that. It's just a fact that you have to accept. Some people might do it for fun or aesthetic pleasure but when it comes to a comparison to 2H PvP then it falls short in what's needed to be a truly competitive PvPer. Put it this way... DW vs 2H 1v1 in any situation 2H will win that matchup 100% of the time and that should mean something to you.


My god this infuriates me. You have all these players coming in and saying "lol, 2H is better ltp NOOB," without any explanation why. The only justification for 2H I've seen is 'it just is', while justification for DW includes better ranged damage, better sustained damage, better utility, better pressure with NS/glyphed IT, more room for error, and more efficient slows with CoI.

If someone can give me a legitimate reason why 2H is better, then please tell me, I'd love to hear it.
02/13/2013 05:38 AMPosted by Karaahl
If you're rolling Frost DW then you're gimping yourself. There's no argument about that. It's just a fact that you have to accept. Some people might do it for fun or aesthetic pleasure but when it comes to a comparison to 2H PvP then it falls short in what's needed to be a truly competitive PvPer. Put it this way... DW vs 2H 1v1 in any situation 2H will win that matchup 100% of the time and that should mean something to you.


My god this infuriates me. You have all these players coming in and saying "lol, 2H is better ltp NOOB," without any explanation why. The only justification for 2H I've seen is 'it just is', while justification for DW includes better ranged damage, better sustained damage, better utility, better pressure with NS/glyphed IT, more room for error, and more efficient slows with CoI.

If someone can give me a legitimate reason why 2H is better, then please tell me, I'd love to hear it.


2H Frost
-V.Good burst damage but it's really unpredictable
(KM proc's with there 2h weapon so its hard to know when a KM will come)
-Main focus is Oblit
(cost's 2 runes so less room for error)
-Nice 100k+ KM's
(even better when set up with burst trinket's/on-use items)

DW Frost
-V.Good constant pressure since we get KM proc's more often
(KM proc's w/ main-hand and off-hand)
-Main focus is FS
(more room for utility HB/IT/CoI etc...)
-We don't get those 100k+ KM's but we get more frequent KM proc's
(I've gotten anywhere from 30k-70k KM's and with it proc'ing more often then 2H you can
see 3-4 KM proc's b4 a 2H get's his 1 at times)

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