Only 1.7 Million 90s on NA Realms

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And now to show why 'number of level 90s' does not matter :

Blizzard announced 9.6 million active subscribers.

Mists of Pandaria has sold approx 3 million copies.

Therefore about 2/3 of the WoW population can't level past 80/85. Wait what you say ? Well the base game (the battlechest) is only up to wrath with the level cap at 80 and they might have Cataclysm with a level cap of 85.

Therefore using the same sites (inaccurate in my mind)'s data for level 80-90 you get :

7 609 785 level 80-90 characters.
02/08/2013 12:29 AMPosted by Arathyn
I've noticed a great drop in level 90 players, but meh, Blizz has already lost 500k subs since the last quarter.


Someone saw my point. I enjoyed leveling, I did the questing experience for Horde and Alliance. I had fun but after that, I find myself less interested in the game. I used to have a realm community and all i have been able to hang on to was guidies and they are slowly dropping. Finding people who want to raid in a casual yet persistent(3hrs 3d/week) group is being an issue. People just show up and go through the motions and log off. Even I do that. I play on one of the higher pop realms and the raid leaders I talk to are having the exact same issue. Activity has never been this low this fresh into an xpac.

I myself have looked into other MMO, most of my guild mates are either playing GW2/Rift or awaiting ESO between raids. I was in public gaming TS and this subject came up, one point was made.

"I would rather research upcomming MMOs then log in to WoW right now"


Guess its just a tad disappointing, well back to playing WC3 Elf Campaign


To you maybe. I have tried out pretty much every known MMO and a few lesser known ones as they hit Beta and went live. None of them have had enough of anything to keep my interest longer than the initial 30 days for sub based MMOs, or longer than a week or two for free ones.

I am not one of these people that has to play WoW over any other MMO because of time invested. Sure it would suck if a better game came along and I left every thing I built but I would leave if I found something better. The thing is, ther is nothing better on the market. Sure other games have flashier graphics but movement sucks, UIs blow, leveling is a grind, endgame is non existent, or there are things that were perfected 8 years ago when WoW launched that others have not figured out how to fix today.

3 hours and 3 days a week is not casual. LFR has allowed the people who want to do some raiding but not be part of a guild to do that. That is what most of the casual raiders wanted and why they joined guilds in the first place.
And now to show why 'number of level 90s' does not matter :

Blizzard announced 9.6 million active subscribers.

Mists of Pandaria has sold approx 3 million copies.

Therefore about 2/3 of the WoW population can't level past 80/85. Wait what you say ? Well the base game (the battlechest) is only up to wrath with the level cap at 80 and they might have Cataclysm with a level cap of 85.

Therefore using the same sites (inaccurate in my mind)'s data for level 80-90 you get :

7 609 785 level 80-90 characters.


The forums are no place for logic. It totally ruins the arguments of OPs.
The forums are no place for logic. It totally ruins the arguments of OPs.


But that is illogical. Logic is what drives the universe.

Live long and prosper.
02/08/2013 04:42 AMPosted by Somaliu
Logic is what drives the universe.


No, coffee does.

Why do people fixate on these things? Blizzard isn't going to instantly change the game because you point out subscription numbers. In fact, I'm willing to bet Blizzard is more familiar with subscription numbers than we are. Funny that.
Those sites that have players use a mod are not even close to accurate.
I found that out for myself when I tested it.

I used a very big guild that I knew was big as a example.
I went to relmpop and one other and looked to see how many members of said guild had any activity for that week. It said 44 or around there had activity for the whole week.

I then looked at the armory and the same guild.
The aromory had 120+ members with activity in the last 24 hours alone.
240+ had activity listed on the armory for that week. The same week that relmpop claimed only 44.

One of them is way off.

The methodology of Realmpop is flawed. It does not distinguish between active and inactive players. A person from a guild that hasn't been active in 3 years could go to the auction house, and Realmpop would tag everyone in that guild.

I like the methodology of Warcraft Realms (http://www.warcraftrealms.com/) with their wow census add on, but too few people have been using it to get accurate results. I also think there has been an issue with mod updates. It only picks up active players at the time a player runs the mod, and a player can run the mod whenever they want.
Post buried by those in denial.

I'd love to see numbers for US & EU since they pay a different subscription model to Asia. The reason why WoW has so many more players than Rift, SWTOR & GW2 is that those games aren't played in China.


Its in the shareholder reports. NA and EU share roughly 45% of revenues while the 500k loss were in China. Just like the a large majority of the 3M previous lost subs were from Asian markets during Cata. EU and NA subs have remained pretty stable since subs peaked in 2010.

Activity is totally different. Again, as for 90s, MoP has only sold around 3M or so copies so you cannot expect 9.6M 90s. MoP is an add on. It is not required to play WoW. Most account have never had a max level toon. The people who post on forums are fanatics and have tremendous passion for the game and would easily have max level toons and buy the expansions when the come out. The fact is most players do not.
02/08/2013 04:45 AMPosted by Crepe
Logic is what drives the universe.


No, coffee does.

Why do people fixate on these things? Blizzard isn't going to instantly change the game because you point out subscription numbers. In fact, I'm willing to bet Blizzard is more familiar with subscription numbers than we are. Funny that.


Not to mention any subscription based service that has no enforceable contracts is constantly in fluctuation. I would not be shocked if thousands of people quit and signed up daily if not 10s of thousands.
02/08/2013 04:45 AMPosted by Crepe
Logic is what drives the universe.


No, coffee does.

Why do people fixate on these things? Blizzard isn't going to instantly change the game because you point out subscription numbers. In fact, I'm willing to bet Blizzard is more familiar with subscription numbers than we are. Funny that.

Actually, I would challenge that.

No matter what methodology is selected, it will both pick up players who are not active, and miss active players. I want to say that it is prone to both type I and type II errors, but I'd probably lose about 99% of anyone who reads this if I said that.

Maybe people point out these things because they perceive that the game is not going in a good direction, they use the sub numbers to support their observation, and they would like Blizzard to do "something" about it.
02/08/2013 04:45 AMPosted by Crepe
No, coffee does.


Thank you for the reminder that I just put on a pot of coffee ... mmmm ... coffee .. now if only Tim Hortons was not so far away :(
3rd party sites that use reasonably rigorous statistical methods are useful only for seeing trends, not absolute numbers.

That said Cataclysm was an absolute disaster (and not in the way Blizzard intended) and everything about MoP suggests to me that it's not intended to grow the game, merely to stop the bleeding. It's done a good job of that.
02/08/2013 04:45 AMPosted by Crepe
Logic is what drives the universe.


No, coffee does.


It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Blizzard announced 9.6 million active subscribers.

Mists of Pandaria has sold approx 3 million copies.

Therefore about 2/3 of the WoW population can't level past 80/85. Wait what you say ? Well the base game (the battlechest) is only up to wrath with the level cap at 80 and they might have Cataclysm with a level cap of 85.


Well, the problem with this logic that I think you're forgetting is, players who play on a 'pay by the hour" subscription format like in China don't buy expansions, they're gifted to them.

So over half the playerbase of WoW does not actually buy expansions.
And now to show why 'number of level 90s' does not matter :

Blizzard announced 9.6 million active subscribers.

Mists of Pandaria has sold approx 3 million copies.

Therefore about 2/3 of the WoW population can't level past 80/85. Wait what you say ? Well the base game (the battlechest) is only up to wrath with the level cap at 80 and they might have Cataclysm with a level cap of 85.

Therefore using the same sites (inaccurate in my mind)'s data for level 80-90 you get :

7 609 785 level 80-90 characters.


That's because in china you don't buy expansion packs...boom logic exploded.
And now to show why 'number of level 90s' does not matter :

Blizzard announced 9.6 million active subscribers.

Mists of Pandaria has sold approx 3 million copies.

Therefore about 2/3 of the WoW population can't level past 80/85. Wait what you say ? Well the base game (the battlechest) is only up to wrath with the level cap at 80 and they might have Cataclysm with a level cap of 85.

Therefore using the same sites (inaccurate in my mind)'s data for level 80-90 you get :

7 609 785 level 80-90 characters.


That's because in china you don't buy expansion packs...boom logic exploded.


See I was not aware of that. But that's only in china. On the other hand where is the data on what % of NA players have mists ? Oh wait there isn't any.

So either way the numbers mean nothing unless you have Blizzard's internal numbers which is kinda the point.


That's because in china you don't buy expansion packs...boom logic exploded.


See I was not aware of that. But that's only in china. On the other hand where is the data on what % of NA players have mists ? Oh wait there isn't any.

So either way the numbers mean nothing unless you have Blizzard's internal numbers which is kinda the point.


Blizz confirmed about half of subs came from eu and NA combined. According to realm pop EU has a bit more subs than NA. But for argument sake lets say split 50/50. That's about 2.125mm subs in NA which I find to be inflated. Also they count a "sub" if you we're active anytime during that quarter. In china they count a "sub" if you went into an Internet cafe and played wow for 15 minutes anytime within a 30 day period.
I'm still wondering what the fixation is all about.
One could say that since over half of the 10 million subs were in the china market that would leave around 4 million in N/A and EU.
Now since china doesn't pay for expansions the 3 millon copies of MoP adds up also sub numbers doesn't = player numbers since you have to think about all the dual and multi boxers and others with an extra accounts they use just for recruit a friend.
Admitting that the census is accurate and that there is only 1.9 milion 90s in NA, I still dont' understand why those subs would count less than Europe ?
According to realm pop 1.7mm in us and 2mm in eu. Level 90s. So yes I would assume eu has a bit more players

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