Problem with raid finder loot system

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
I have been running raid finder every week this expansion and i have been getting loot like crazy. Here's the problem, i get gear that i already have... or items that are worse then what i already have. Yesterday i got a tier leg token which i already had, ive also gotten identical items that i currently have equipped. This tells me the raid finder rolls between anyone that can use the item regardless of if they already have the item equipped, WORSE YET i cant trade the item to others in the group who actually need it!!! This is why no one is getting any gear in raid finders and to be honest it ridiculous that the system can't at the very least allow you to trade it between the other people in the raid or simply look to see if u currently have that same item equipped... come on blizzard...
Trading
24 people runnind a raid and giving the 1 guy all the loot

Getting items you already have
Happens in real raiding, and has happened for 8 years, it's not some new magical thing.

Loot Acquisition rate
Is exactly where Blizzard wants it, anything that gives you more loot must nerf the original droprate to compensate for how much quicker you would gear up.
Trading
At least allow us the option to DE it or something if we cannot trade it.

Getting items you already have.
No, items you have would drop again. But you probably weren't going to roll on them, and someone else could roll for it.

Loot Acquisition rate
....
It's LFR. Who cares if you gear in two runs. It's not like you're completing world firsts in 476/483 gear. While some people use LFR as a staging run to gear up for normals, for others LFR is end game. It's our raid. We run it because we are casual players and don't have the time to do normals or heroic. Not being rewarded for the effort and time put in is frustrating.

I would love to go back to pushing heroic content, and server firsts but i don't have that kind of time to play anymore. And when the time i do spend "raiding" is exactly the outcome that Alizak points out, it's no longer rewarding, or fun.

The point of Heroic dungeons is to run through and get gear. It's challenging in all greens, but eventually, you just power through for the gear. Raids are about downing content. You need better gear to do that, yes. But its "you win" is killing a boss. LFR, is essentially a raid, heroic dungeon. It's hard in greens, but eventually everyone just zergs their way through it. The reward is gear, not pride in downing the boss anymore.
02/08/2013 12:05 AMPosted by Suinet
No, items you have would drop again. But you probably weren't going to roll on them, and someone else could roll for it.


So, you'd rather get 28.5 gold twice as often than duplicate items?

If you're crying for more loot, it's not happening.

It's LFR. Who cares if you gear in two runs.


The company that makes a living off people playing their video game.

02/08/2013 12:05 AMPosted by Suinet
Not being rewarded for the effort and time put in is frustrating.


So, if you won everything, and you were a casual who doesnt run normal, what would you do?

02/08/2013 12:05 AMPosted by Suinet
The reward is gear, not pride in downing the boss anymore.


I'd say it's a reward for not falling asleep while playing, but I know 2 people who won empress loots while being literally asleep.
No, items you have would drop again. But you probably weren't going to roll on them, and someone else could roll for it.


So, you'd rather get 28.5 gold twice as often than duplicate items?

If you're crying for more loot, it's not happening.

No, what i would like is when I bonus roll on Lei Shi attempting to get a tier token, I don't get the trinket i already have, and have gotten duplicate before. If loot is won, item ID:xx is already owned so it won't award me that item. OR, it awards me the shard instead.


It's LFR. Who cares if you gear in two runs.


The company that makes a living off people playing their video game.

When you frustrate people, they won't want to play the game anyway. You should make content people want to run again and again. Not pigeon hole them into running it again and again.


Not being rewarded for the effort and time put in is frustrating.


So, if you won everything, and you were a casual who doesn't run normal, what would you do?

I would run on an alt. I was running Lock, DK, Priest. The lock geared up very fast and i stopped running her. I was going to move my druid into the mix but i was somewhat disheartened not completely from bad loot RNG, but that I put in my daily time for the bonus rolls that felt just as futile in the end. So i've not run any alts through and have started playing other games. I only log in to get 10-15 coins a day and to roll / bonus roll on Emp, Lei, Sha once a week. Oh, and see the story line quests.


The reward is gear, not pride in downing the boss anymore.


I'd say it's a reward for not falling asleep while playing, but I know 2 people who won empress loots while being literally asleep.


Maybe that's what i'm doing wrong. Maybe i should take a nap.

It's easily blamed on RNG, but I think the most frustrating part of all of this loot talk are the bonus rolls. No I don't think I will get something just because i bonus rolled. But watching my warlock gear up with only ever using 3 bonus rolls total. My priest getting 470, then a Sha touched without ever bringing coins. And my DK who i consider my "Main", bringing coins week after week after week and get the same items or bag of gold over and over. It causes a bit of anger and sadness. Sanger if you will.
02/08/2013 02:04 AMPosted by Suinet
No, what i would like is when I bonus roll on Lei Shi attempting to get a tier token, I don't get the trinket i already have, and have gotten duplicate before. If loot is won, item ID:xx is already owned so it won't award me that item. OR, it awards me the shard instead.


I waaaaant it now

DADDDY

02/08/2013 02:04 AMPosted by Suinet
When you frustrate people, they won't want to play the game anyway. You should make content people want to run again and again. Not pigeon hole them into running it again and again.


Thats what normal and heroic are for

if LFR was a legitimate story mode, you would run it once and be done. Making it nothing but the personification of a loot pinata leaves nothing to desire but DADDDY GIVE ME LOOT NOW!

I would run on an alt. I was running Lock, DK, Priest. The lock geared up very fast and i stopped running her. I was going to move my druid into the mix but i was somewhat disheartened not completely from bad loot RNG, but that I put in my daily time for the bonus rolls that felt just as futile in the end. So i've not run any alts through and have started playing other games. I only log in to get 10-15 coins a day and to roll / bonus roll on Emp, Lei, Sha once a week. Oh, and see the story line quests.


Now, imagine all of those alts being geared in 2 weeks, as you suggested earlier.

Now what?

Are you one of those people who doesn't have time to raid, but somehow spends more time in lfr than I spend raiding?

It's easily blamed on RNG, but I think the most frustrating part of all of this loot talk are the bonus rolls. No I don't think I will get something just because i bonus rolled. But watching my warlock gear up with only ever using 3 bonus rolls total. My priest getting 470, then a Sha touched without ever bringing coins. And my DK who i consider my "Main", bringing coins week after week after week and get the same items or bag of gold over and over. It causes a bit of anger and sadness. Sanger if you will.


Don't use coins

I just solved your problem of crying over a >Free, Bonus, Chance<
02/08/2013 02:04 AMPosted by Suinet
lock geared up very fast and i stopped running her.
now apply this to everyone...

the game would be dead inside a month...
There is no loot competition in LFR. Passing gear to other players is what you do when loot competition is a thing. You basically won it as a greed roll, congrats.
02/08/2013 04:54 AMPosted by Zaxan
lock geared up very fast and i stopped running her.
now apply this to everyone...

the game would be dead inside a month...

One month later:
"BLIZZAARRRRRD Y CANT U FIX QUEUEUEUE TIIIMESSSS"

Because if
The reward is gear, not pride in downing the boss anymore.

And you get all your gear in a week or two, and you (that is, everyone) only are running it for the gear, you (again- everyone) will be done with LFR and stop running it. So then what happens when you finally get your next alt to 90 and try to run LFR?

I waaaaant it now

DADDDY

Yeah, totally. I meant give it to me now, and not maybe somewhere in 3 months of putting in my time and effort.


if LFR was a legitimate story mode, you would run it once and be done. Making it nothing but the personification of a loot pinata leaves nothing to desire but DADDDY GIVE ME LOOT NOW!


Where you keep getting this concept of "Now, now, now" is somewhere in your own mind apparently.



Now, imagine all of those alts being geared in 2 weeks, as you suggested earlier.

Now what?


No one is saying 2 weeks is the standard model here. I just point that out as the opposite end of the luck spectrum.



Don't use coins

I just solved your problem of crying over a >Free, Bonus, Chance<


I forgot the bonus rolls are free and require no effort on my part.
You admitt that you are getting gear very quickly from LFR and propose a new scheme that would not only feed you epics at a high rate but also customize those epics for you?

These ridiculous "I want more better faster loot from LFR" posts are a plague on these forums and you deserve nothing more than you have gotten.

I believe blizzard already has a pay-to-win type game where you can literally have all the best gear you desire instantly; it's called diablo 3. Go there for the oh so compelling game play of instant gratification and the effortless easy mode facerolling it creates.
I'm noticing two things when it comes to LFR.

Firstly, people DEMAND that they gear every time because their 30 minutes of AFK Auto-Shot is apparently worth something.

Secondly, people need to go back to the 3rd grade to learn what CHANCE means and how CHANCE and GUARANTEED are not synonyms.

You get to plow your way through the absolute personification of a loot pinata, where ZERO effort is required to breeze through it, and you feel that those few minutes of beating the poor thing with a stick counts as true time spent raiding and makes you deserving of loot? Good lord do you need to get over yourself.

"/cry I got the same shoulders again! Blizzard mans fix this or I'll unsub! /kick-and-scream"

I used the same blue bow, that I picked up from my FIRST heroic, until I finally caved and got the PvP bow last week, despite having done 24 rolls on Will of the emperor (1 in normal and 1 in LFR). Do I feel I've earned the bow? Yes I do. Should it magically appear in my inventory just because I can throw a tantrum and cry about having used 24 coins as well as having seen the normal boss drops on both? HELL NO.

RNG is RNG, and no matter how much you cry about it, it won't change. So suck it up.
You pretty much sank your own post when you pointed out that when you gear up a character your next move is to stop playing it. Why, then, should we gear your characters up faster?
02/08/2013 11:19 AMPosted by Mahourai
You pretty much sank your own post when you pointed out that when you gear up a character your next move is to stop playing it. Why, then, should we gear your characters up faster?


I assume you are talking to me?
I'm not OP, just to point out.

But to respond, I don't speak for everyone. Others might take that gear and go on to normals and heroic.
I personally would move on to another character, not stop playing altogether.
I assume you are talking to me?
I'm not OP, just to point out.

But to respond, I don't speak for everyone. Others might take that gear and go on to normals and heroic.
I personally would move on to another character, not stop playing altogether.


Doesn't change the fact that if your endpoint is getting fully LFR geared for a character then it's not in Blizzard's best interest to gear you up faster. It's not in the best interests of the game either since your character fully geared is a character lost.

Doesn't change the fact that if your endpoint is getting fully LFR geared for a character then it's not in Blizzard's best interest to gear you up faster. It's not in the best interests of the game either since your character fully geared is a character lost.


Not a player lost though. A new character takes their place.

Doesn't change the fact that if your endpoint is getting fully LFR geared for a character then it's not in Blizzard's best interest to gear you up faster. It's not in the best interests of the game either since your character fully geared is a character lost.


Not a player lost though. A new character takes their place.

And you are one person and this is how you play.

This is not the most alt-friendly expansion. The company that created this game and has maintained it for years will know more about player retention rates than you do. If there was no need to make dungeon drops completely reliant on RNG, then I'm sure they would have done something differently by now.

It's fun to win the grand prize on the slot machines, but the casinos make much more money by making the prizes completely random and reliant on chance. They get more money from people playing the slots over and over again in an attempt to win than they would if every single person could sit at the slot machine for x amount of time and automatically win.
02/08/2013 11:41 AMPosted by Suinet
Not a player lost though. A new character takes their place.


You're not just going to keep gearing up new characters in perpetuity. If LFR showered you with loot you would stop playing, as you already tacitly admitted.
The new loot system works far better than the LFR loot system in DS. It's not perfect, but it's nice to win a piece of loot and not be hounded by tells asking to trade the piece.

One thing that I do find frustrating is trying to gear my OS. I'm MS heals so I get a quick queue. Healers are in short supply for LFR. But jumping in queue as DPS is painful. I know lots of people do it, but as the patch wears on and raiders go to LFR less, the queue times get worse.

I would love to be able to queue as a healer, not needing a single piece of healing loot from LFR, and CHOOSE to have my gear rolls be for OS. Logistically speaking, I don't think it would be wise early in a new patch. But as the content wears on, you could look at it as something equivalent to a 10% nerf to old raids. Letting us choose to heal or tank, and roll on DPS gear would be supremely dope! Just a suggestion.

One thing I want to add about getting duplicate items on bonus rolls. It is frustrating, yes. But it's something we've never had before. It's literally a bonus! You're free to ignore the charm system and gamble on getting only one roll. But it's gonna be one of those few times when you get a piece on a bonus roll that you really needed, and you're glad you had that extra roll.

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