Why dont Alliance just allow Undead?

Story Forum
02/07/2013 07:17 PMPosted by Lena
Right, because the humans didn't work with the forsaken at all and then got back stabbed for their trouble.


Understandable comment, but if the alliance could take out Sylvanas then that evil is gone(please don't kill her I love her)
Even the Horde find the Forsaken repulsive. They only get along with them because the Horde bases every aspect of their culture around SURVIVING, and the Forsaken bring some very obvious advantages to a battlefield.


fixed that for ya
Of course not.

But that's not what's being discussed. The question was why general undead aren't a part of the Alliance.

Sylvanas is that reason.
She's one of the reasons, to be sure.
So what? even the living races get some racisim when they join the factions, Just look at the trolls and dranie. But they suck it up and don't go over board about it like the forsaken.
Forsaken logic is kinda messed up, "The alliance thinks we are monsters! KILL THEM AND EVERYTHING THEY LOVE!!!!!!"
Well, I'd argue that with the Forsaken its a bit more complicated than a different bone structure or skin color. They're dead. Blending into human society would be more complicated than "sucking it up" because as Draile pointed out, there are some very fundamental reasons for the Forsaken sticking out like a sore thumb.
Can't have a discussion about the Alliance's acceptance of undeath without discussing the Alliance's policy on resurrections and necromancy.
02/07/2013 07:00 PMPosted by Lena


hahahah hahahehehe WOOT good joke ;)

Uh, what do you think death knights are?


the PC DK is told by varian that Tirion's letter is the only reason the PC was not killed on sight and that varian would like to do so personaly.

it takes a letter from the most influencial paladin in the world, at the height of his political power for the alliance DK to be told he is barely tolerated and would prefereably be destroyed based soley on his state of being.
02/07/2013 07:50 PMPosted by Deathisfinal
Can't have a discussion about the Alliance's acceptance of undeath without discussing the Alliance's policy on resurrections and necromancy.


To be specific though, it's Dalaran's law, not Stormwind's(presumably). Though yeah, it's totally not kosher.
It's kinda like this...

Forsaken: Kill all the humans!

Humans: Man these guys are jerks.

Death Knight: Hey guys, I'm here to join the Alliance.

Varian: Um...no?

Death Knight: Note from Tirion, he says I'm cool.

Varian: k, welcome aboard.
02/07/2013 08:22 PMPosted by Juibloc
the PC DK is told by varian that Tirion's letter is the only reason the PC was not killed on sight and that varian would like to do so personaly.


If it was kill on sight, you wouldn't have gotten to present the letter.
Think of it in a real life situation. Would you want to living in a city shared with rotting corpses? Not only would that spread disease like crazy but Humans in general don't like "unnatural" things.
Humans won't like them cause well they're unnatural and their Light based religion is pretty much the opposite of undeath.
Dwarves are pretty much the same as humans.
Gnomes would probably be ok with them since both races are rather heavily into the science theme, plus Gnomes would probably want to study them.
Night Elves, Unnatural being in a nature society? HORSEAPPLES I SAY!
Draenei, VERY HEAVY Light based society, however the whole Naaru and forgiveness thing. They might be cool with it.
Worgen, after what has happened between those two? Can I get a HEEEEELLLLLZZZ NO?!
Pandaren....don't really count as a faction race.
02/07/2013 08:29 PMPosted by Arkturas
the PC DK is told by varian that Tirion's letter is the only reason the PC was not killed on sight and that varian would like to do so personaly.


If it was kill on sight, you wouldn't have gotten to present the letter.


doesnt Tirion say that he sent word ahead of the player at the end of the DK starter zones?

it has been years since i did the quests, but it is Tirion's word that keeps the player from being killed.
doesnt Tirion say that he sent word ahead of the player at the end of the DK starter zones?

it has been years since i did the quests, but it is Tirion's word that keeps the player from being killed.


I don't recall, honestly. And additionally, the history of the Forsaken and their actions precedes the Death Knight's entrance. They helped spoil it.

If Sylvanas had not killed and betrayed garithos's army, who knows what might have happened.
doesnt Tirion say that he sent word ahead of the player at the end of the DK starter zones?

it has been years since i did the quests, but it is Tirion's word that keeps the player from being killed.


I don't recall, honestly. And additionally, the history of the Forsaken and their actions precedes the Death Knight's entrance. They helped spoil it.

If Sylvanas had not killed and betrayed garithos's army, who knows what might have happened.


Just a guess but Garithos probably would have waited a bit, to build up his forces, then gone on another crusade.
I think they will welcome undead in general if they are sentient. Its the forsaken specifically that the alliance as a whole has a beef with. Of course there wil lalways be the peasant guy whose like, " The only good undead is a dead undead."
The problem with blaming it on what Sylvanas did to Garithos is no one other than the Forsaken knows what happened that day. All the Alliance seem to know is that he and his army vanished during the Third War.
02/07/2013 09:15 PMPosted by Nathreim
The problem with blaming it on what Sylvanas did to Garithos is no one other than the Forsaken knows what happened that day. All the Alliance seem to know is that he and his army vanished during the Third War.


That's not entirely true. Some members of Garithos's army - like Kristoff, who served as a clerk for Garithos and later as a chamberlain for Jaina - deserted just before his final battle, as they felt certain the undead he had allied with would betray him.

The Alliance would know that Garithos allied with Sylvanas to fight Balnazzar, that Garithos and his army disappeared during or shortly after that battle, and that the Forsaken took control of the Capital City around the same time. That leaves two possibilities: that the humans bore the brunt of the fighting and were wiped out to the last man (allowing the Forsaken to finish off the Legion forces and move in)... or that the undead forces betrayed the living forces like everyone assumed they would.
02/07/2013 09:15 PMPosted by Nathreim
The problem with blaming it on what Sylvanas did to Garithos is no one other than the Forsaken knows what happened that day. All the Alliance seem to know is that he and his army vanished during the Third War.


This is all sort of speculation at this point, as a good chunk of the period right after TFT is kind of nebulous, but we do know that the Forsaken's aggression to humanity continued well after the events with Garithos, and it was Sylvanas herself that instigated what happened there. It's possible that there was some potential diplomacy that was attempted and unfortunately broke down, but I'm more of the opinion that Sylvanas simply continued taking out pockets of humanity where she could without really breaking out the ambassadors.

I mean regardless of what they call themselves, Forsaken or Scourge, I don't think humans would take too kindly a group of people burning their villages and killing their citizens.

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