Rogues will make you lose more Subcribers.

Arenas
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QQ works. Rogue felt weak after S-11 with vial and daggers, duh how could we not? Thanks to the steady pressure of the community with countless posts and constant calls for more it is time to reap the rewards!
Subterfuge is broken.

You can literally open with 3 ambushes, kidney the moment you're visible, pool energy (like 2-3 seconds with relentless strikes / SnD), vanish, 3 more invisible ambushes, and then Bomb>Dance on someones face, and you'd have only even been targettable by peeling teammates for a fraction of that time, especially if they're ranged.

Throw in 30yrd range openners, and you could swap the moment they pop defensives and not lose any momentum.

I imagine it's fun as hell for rogue players.
But it's broken.


I think you misunderstand what the word "literally" means. Assuming the rogue did premed slice and dice to get energetic recovery rolling before he opened on you for additional energy and he times the opening to the gain ticks, he's still not going to have enough energy to ambush you three times in three seconds. He can get close if he manages the ticks perfectly but he'd need 5,700 haste to get there and it looks to me like even if you reforge completely to haste, full Season 13 gear will cap out at 5572 haste. You could pull it off with Season 13-elite I suppose but AFAIK haste is subtlety's worst secondary stat for pvp.

Even if he did manage to get three ambushes in the subterfuge window he's not going to have enough energy to get that kidney shot for another two seconds after the subterfuge ends and then even with the relentless strikes he's going to need to pool energy for another seven and a half seconds to do it again *because he'd still need to time the energy and recovery ticks perfectly to pull it off* And that leaves him with zero energy again going into the bomb or shadow dance. Oh, and he's lost the slice and dice and hence the energetic recovery ticks somewhere around there as well.

Also, if you're getting ambushed by the rogue, you can see him and target him. It doesn't matter if he's got subterfuge and is still stealthed, he'll be just inside your detection range. Since ambush is a positional ability which doesn't CC, you can also move or just turn around. And before you bring up Cloak and Dagger, that will cause latency to prevent the three ambushes even more than it already is.
Subterfuge is broken.

You can literally open with 3 ambushes, kidney the moment you're visible, pool energy (like 2-3 seconds with relentless strikes / SnD), vanish, 3 more invisible ambushes, and then Bomb>Dance on someones face, and you'd have only even been targettable by peeling teammates for a fraction of that time, especially if they're ranged.

Throw in 30yrd range openners, and you could swap the moment they pop defensives and not lose any momentum.

I imagine it's fun as hell for rogue players.
But it's broken.


Please tell me where you're getting all that energy from.

Or maybe you're just exaggeration.... No... that couldn't be it!
If you're seeing non dance burst on an opener that seems extremely large, it's probably because the rogue used Mark for Death to add an additional eviscerate.
Warriors will make you lose subs
Mages will make you lose subs
Hunters will make you lose subs
Pallies will make you lose subs
Monks will make you lose subs
Warlocks will make you lose subs
Shamans will make you lose subs
Druids will make you lose subs
Priests will make you lose subs
Rogues will make you lose subs
EVERY SINGLE CLASS IN THIS GAME has made someone un-sub PLEASE do not spread this bull !@#$ that JUST rogues will make people un-sub as it's false.

I understand that rogues are very powerful in 5.2 ptr atm
Things they should do are: remove sang vein change put it back to 16% from 20%
Nerf cloak and dagger it shouldn't work through LOS and should only break roots ONCE.
They should also remove the vigor change and put it down back to 10 energy.
No more nerfs should be done beside reverting toss to how it is currently on live.
Keep 1min cloak
Move blind back to 1.5min cd
Keep prep on baseline
Keep glove bonus change
The rest needs to go besides new talents.
I do for the most part agree. Extra energy, more damage from sang vein wasn't needed and Marked for Death is probably too good for burst. I would have been happy with clos 1 min, prep and some sort of passive crit reduction while stunned, or something to that effect.
Warriors will make you lose subs
Mages will make you lose subs
Hunters will make you lose subs
Pallies will make you lose subs
Monks will make you lose subs
Warlocks will make you lose subs
Shamans will make you lose subs
Druids will make you lose subs
Priests will make you lose subs
Rogues will make you lose subs
EVERY SINGLE CLASS IN THIS GAME has made someone un-sub PLEASE do not spread this bull !@#$ that JUST rogues will make people un-sub as it's false.

I understand that rogues are very powerful in 5.2 ptr atm
Things they should do are: remove sang vein change put it back to 16% from 20%
Nerf cloak and dagger it shouldn't work through LOS and should only break roots ONCE.
They should also remove the vigor change and put it down back to 10 energy.
No more nerfs should be done beside reverting toss to how it is currently on live.
Keep 1min cloak
Move blind back to 1.5min cd
Keep prep on baseline
Keep glove bonus change
The rest needs to go besides new talents.


no class has the amount of control of a rogue
pvp is what like 1-3% of wow's population
Warriors will make you lose subs
Mages will make you lose subs
Hunters will make you lose subs
Pallies will make you lose subs
Monks will make you lose subs
Warlocks will make you lose subs
Shamans will make you lose subs
Druids will make you lose subs
Priests will make you lose subs
Rogues will make you lose subs
EVERY SINGLE CLASS IN THIS GAME has made someone un-sub PLEASE do not spread this bull !@#$ that JUST rogues will make people un-sub as it's false.

I understand that rogues are very powerful in 5.2 ptr atm
Things they should do are: remove sang vein change put it back to 16% from 20%
Nerf cloak and dagger it shouldn't work through LOS and should only break roots ONCE.
They should also remove the vigor change and put it down back to 10 energy.
No more nerfs should be done beside reverting toss to how it is currently on live.
Keep 1min cloak
Move blind back to 1.5min cd
Keep prep on baseline
Keep glove bonus change
The rest needs to go besides new talents.


no class has the amount of control of a rogue

Actually hunters have just as much if not more.....
Also rogue is meant to be THE control class so why WOULDN'T it have the most?
02/09/2013 03:47 PMPosted by Skumfidus
pvp is what like 1-3% of wow's population


Nah it's easily 92-97%

see I can just make up numbers also

Actually hunters have just as much if not more.....


nope.

Also rogue is meant to be THE control class so why WOULDN"T it have the most?


where did i say they shouldnt
02/09/2013 03:36 PMPosted by Crookston
I do for the most part agree. Extra energy, more damage from sang vein wasn't needed and Marked for Death is probably too good for burst. I would have been happy with clos 1 min, prep and some sort of passive crit reduction while stunned, or something to that effect.


No, it's too good for sub burst. The problem is that shadow dance/find weakness is too much better than the other spec's cooldowns, quite possibly being just too high altogether. I kinda think either Dance or Find Weakness should get a bit of a nerf.
02/09/2013 03:51 PMPosted by Goranne
pvp is what like 1-3% of wow's population


Nah it's easily 92-97%

see I can just make up numbers also


im pretty sure pvp base doesnt take up more then 20% of wows population last time i checked

Actually hunters have just as much if not more.....


nope.

Also rogue is meant to be THE control class so why WOULDN"T it have the most?


where did i say they shouldnt


No i'm pretty sure hunters do they have:
slows
roots
pushback(we don't)
stuns
silences
scatter
trap
special pet cc's
flare
So what was that about them not having as much control as us?
Rogues have:
Roots (para shiv root)
stuns
silences
stuns
blind
sap
slows
and disarms
also bomb I guess
you have a 6 second stun on a 20 second cooldown, just stop
That costs 5 combo points 25 energy and a GCD it's not free you know -_-
Also can't hunters pretty much trap every 20seconds? Sure it may not be as easy but it still can be done.
so its ok for high control classes to have unhealable damage and an escape for every occasion and people think that is balanced? Is it that the general population of WoW just does not want to work for what they get? kinda like the entitlement group in the American population that thinks the world owes them everything .
That costs 5 combo points 25 energy and a GCD it's not free you know -_-
Also can't hunters pretty much trap every 20seconds? Sure it may not be as easy but it still can be done.


every 30, but why are you comparing 2 abilities (you will never land a trap unless someone is scattered) that break instantly on damage with a 6 second stun?
That costs 5 combo points 25 energy and a GCD it's not free you know -_-
Also can't hunters pretty much trap every 20seconds? Sure it may not be as easy but it still can be done.


every 30, but why are you comparing 2 abilities (you will never land a trap unless someone is scattered) that break instantly on damage with a 6 second stun?

Why were you comparing one aspect of my control package when I was comparing the entirety of it vs the entirety of the hunter control package?
??=E

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