Remove low lvl xmute cd?

Professions
So this morning I got my 2nd boa mace for the monk and went to enchant them. Ugh no Essence of Air in the gbank, guess I'll buy some. Oh wait, no I won't, there's none in the AH. Oh well, I got plenty of fire guess I'll just transmute them. Oh wait, no I won't, cuz for some reason there's a 24 hour cooldown still?

W
T
F
?

So I guess now my options are to transmute every day for the next 2 weeks to get the airs I need, or spend god knows how long farming the elementals in Silithus, and since I can't imagine a less enjoyable way to spend my time in game, I guess I'm waiting 2 weeks.

Please Blizz, remove the cooldown on elemental transmutes. Now that Spirits are the latest greatest, there is really no point.
My understanding is that some things have a cooldown to prevent transmutation masters from making infinite amounts of them through cyclical transmutes. Like, you transmute primal earth into primal water, primal water into air, air into fire, and fire into earth, with transmutation mastery giving you extra primals all along.

What I've always thought they should do is have *separate* cooldowns for each expansion.
Well that makes sense...except at this point in the game I wouldn't be against that at all. I'm not seeing enough demand for these types of materials for that to be game-breaking in any sense. If people want to flood the market with largely useless elementals I'm all for it :)

I guess it depends on what's really happening in game. Like right now there are essentially zero essences of any type on my servers AH. Is that because they are in high demand and being instantly snatched up, or because there is zero demand and levelers are just vendoring them?
02/10/2013 09:31 AMPosted by Marijua
Well that makes sense...except at this point in the game I wouldn't be against that at all. I'm not seeing enough demand for these types of materials for that to be game-breaking in any sense. If people want to flood the market with largely useless elementals I'm all for it :)


Who says they'd need to flood the market? If there was no cooldown on these circles, an alchemist could make very large amounts of gold by simply vendoring them.
I'd get 30 or 40 in an hour of farming at 85. This was before mass looting. I'd imagine I'd get more now that I don't have to touch every corpse.

Also, something to consider: This is one transmute that a lower level alchemist can use to make a profit. The profit margin is similar or even better than living steel since they generally sell for 150-250 gold each.
02/10/2013 09:38 AMPosted by Rubyheart
If there was no cooldown on these circles, an alchemist could make very large amounts of gold by simply vendoring them.


Ahh, money from nothing...I guess that's reason enough to have a cd. You would have to transmute 24/7 for weeks on end to make what I would call very large amounts of gold but I see your point.

02/10/2013 10:10 AMPosted by Higeki
I'd get 30 or 40 in an hour of farming at 85.

Wow that's impressive. Wowhead reports a 5% drop rate, so to get 40 per hour you would need to kill around 800 mobs each hour. Think you might be exaggerating just a tad? :)
At a one second gcd on an instant cast spell? I can kill 60 a minute. Realistically, I kill everything in the area in 2 or 3 minutes then hop over and kill the other side. I can kill faster than respawns but they respawn reasonably quickly. So no, probably not. I've certainly done 30+ an hour. How long does it take you to kill a level 55 mob?
I would at least wish they would put each expantion on its own cool down!!!!
02/10/2013 01:32 PMPosted by Higeki
How long does it take you to kill a level 55 mob?

Not as long as it took you to pull those numbers outta yer bum.

I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure you have no idea what you're talking about. First you say you can kill 60 per minute, but then right after you say it takes 2-3 min to clear a side (which is nowhere near 60 mobs), so which is it?
I'm not going to argue with you. Corruption is a one second global. I tab target everything within reach, they run to me, die at my feet and I loot. I've certainly made a case for being able to kill 800 mobs an hour since I can technically kill 600 mobs in just over ten minutes. 1200 mobs in 20 minutes. So that other 40 minutes would be the time spent moving to the other areas and time spent looting.

I'm sorry if you're unable to gather 30+ essence of air per hour. It is certainly possible and plausible. Had I said I gathered 100+ per hour I would be exagerating, but in this case, no, I am not.
02/10/2013 09:38 AMPosted by Rubyheart
Well that makes sense...except at this point in the game I wouldn't be against that at all. I'm not seeing enough demand for these types of materials for that to be game-breaking in any sense. If people want to flood the market with largely useless elementals I'm all for it :)


Who says they'd need to flood the market? If there was no cooldown on these circles, an alchemist could make very large amounts of gold by simply vendoring them.


Except you can do this with other transmutes as well. The "rare" metal transmutes outside Pyrium and the vanilla ones have no cd.

I'm not going to argue with you. Corruption is a one second global. I tab target everything within reach, they run to me, die at my feet and I loot. I've certainly made a case for being able to kill 800 mobs an hour since I can technically kill 600 mobs in just over ten minutes. 1200 mobs in 20 minutes. So that other 40 minutes would be the time spent moving to the other areas and time spent looting.

I'm sorry if you're unable to gather 30+ essence of air per hour. It is certainly possible and plausible. Had I said I gathered 100+ per hour I would be exagerating, but in this case, no, I am not.


Not on my server it's not.

See: CRZ. I've got freaking proudmoore in my pile. That right there has a boatload of people farming. I can hit that spot up and find a dozen people there most times of the day, and the mobs don't spawn that fast.

Give it a break.

Get rid of the damned CD. Outdated crap is outdated.

They don't give a hoot about the economy or they'd have addressed that when they put the dead servers in with high pop with CRZ.
02/11/2013 02:34 AMPosted by Phayle
Except you can do this with other transmutes as well. The "rare" metal transmutes outside Pyrium and the vanilla ones have no cd.

Metal is metal, elements are elements. You can't transmute Pyrium to anything other than Truegold, and it requires more mats than just the Pyrium itself. Primal elements on the other hand, can be transmuted in a complete circle, with no loss between steps. You can go from water to air, to fire, to earth, to life, to shadow, to water, to air, to fire, etc. If a transmute master procs even one extra in that circle, then they have the means to make an infinite supply of free gold.
I do dailies and farm between 12-4 am Mountain time. I'll give you that I'm not doing it during primetime. I know better. That's when I raid, do LFD/LFR and play with friends.

I do not like competition so I structure my time accordingly.
02/11/2013 07:35 AMPosted by Rubyheart
Except you can do this with other transmutes as well. The "rare" metal transmutes outside Pyrium and the vanilla ones have no cd.

Metal is metal, elements are elements. You can't transmute Pyrium to anything other than Truegold, and it requires more mats than just the Pyrium itself. Primal elements on the other hand, can be transmuted in a complete circle, with no loss between steps. You can go from water to air, to fire, to earth, to life, to shadow, to water, to air, to fire, etc. If a transmute master procs even one extra in that circle, then they have the means to make an infinite supply of free gold.


And it would take about 20 minutes for the botters to take advantage of that and you can say goodbye to every server's economy.
"I refuse to argue", she said, while continuing to argue. Female confirmed.

I mean this is just getting silly but, as long as we're making up numbers lets go all out. Myself, I could kill 20 gingigillion lvl 55 mobs every half a nanosecond, if only they existed outside my own mind.

02/11/2013 02:34 AMPosted by Phayle
Except you can do this with other transmutes as well. The "rare" metal transmutes outside Pyrium and the vanilla ones have no cd.


Not really. What Ruby pointed out was that, using the Fire>Earth>Water>Air>Fire 'circle of transmutation', you could infinitely transmute that same # of elementals over and over, and vendor the procs to make gold. While in practice this would be a complete waste of time, in theory Blizz doesn't like this sort of thing.

I said 'complete waste of time' purely by instinct, so I went ahead and mathed it out. Not exactly sure what the proc rate on transmuting is supposed to be, but I'm pretty sure potions is 20% so for the sake of argument I'll call it that:

Transmute Cast Time: 1.5 sec = 40 per min = 2400 per hour
20 % Proc Rate = 480 pph
4s vendor price = 19g20s per hour

So because in theory it would be possible to create 19g20s per hour (about 460g a day) out of nothing, we have to have a 24 hour cooldown on vanilla transmutes.
Get rid of the damned CD. Outdated crap is outdated.
Transmute Cast Time: 1.5 sec = 40 per min = 2400 per hour
20 % Proc Rate = 480 pph
4s vendor price = 19g20s per hour

So because in theory it would be possible to create 19g20s per hour (about 460g a day) out of nothing, we have to have a 24 hour cooldown on vanilla transmutes.

I think you're missing the part where the alchemist could use any procs to transmute with as well, instead of just vendoring them. The single primal they start with can quickly turn to 20, then 60, then 180, etc.
No, I just thought we had covered that already.

You can vendor procs (at a massive 20g per hour) or you can amass huge amounts of largely useless elementals and try to dump them on the AH (good luck, since they're only used for BOA enchants and some level 55-60 gear noone would ever bother crafting except for maybe transmog).

I'm having a hard time seeing how removing the CD is going to instantly destroy server economies & net botters millions.
The only way I could see them removing the cooldown on the old elemental transmutes would be if Blizzard removed the proc chance for those transmutes as well.
They could do that but there's no point. Botters will look at the potential income, laugh, and do something else, so they should just go ahead and remove the CD & save some dev time.
02/12/2013 07:15 PMPosted by Marijua
potential income

Except that it's not potential income, it's guaranteed. Going out and farming mobs hoping for random drops on the other hand, is not guaranteed to get you large amounts of gold.

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