Patch TOO SOON

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02/11/2013 10:42 AMPosted by Divinez
MMO CHAMP is Blizzard? I had no clue.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/8608452/Preparing_to_Kill_a_King-2_11_2013

The Blizzard post MMOchamp cited.

Of course we don’t tend to give out patch release dates ahead of time, because things can slip, but right now we’re targeting the last week of February.


https://twitter.com/Bashiok/status/301013346717663232 The tweet where Bashiok linked to the post.

Or is that not good enough and not proof that Blizzard said it?


Targeting does not mean guaranteed release. They won't hesitate pushing it back if it's not ready.

That said, four months for the raid tier is about right. If you're not done progressing, that's not Blizzard's fault. if they waited for everyone who raids to have a full clear on Heroic, we wouldn't see the patch for two years...and some peopel would still complain that they weren't ready.
02/11/2013 11:21 AMPosted by Thequay
That said, four months for the raid tier is about right.


No, the best length for a raid tier should be entirely dependent on how many bosses there are.

10 months of DS, 1 year of ICC = too long.

5 months of MSV/4 months of HoF Terrace, 4 months of Ulduar = too short.

7 months of BoT/BWD/TFW = perfect.
02/11/2013 11:31 AMPosted by Illifra
That said, four months for the raid tier is about right.


No, the best length for a raid tier should be entirely dependent on how many bosses there are.

10 months of DS, 1 year of ICC = too long.

5 months of MSV/4 months of HoF Terrace, 4 months of Ulduar = too short.

7 months of BoT/BWD/TFW = perfect.


This. 16 bosses is A LOT especially with Christmas and Thanksgiving causing most guilds to lose at least 2-3 weeks of progress.
I think it's time for a change of scenery.
02/11/2013 10:36 AMPosted by Ihateyourmom
You don't even know when the patch is coming out though.


MMO-Champion is saying Feb 26th.


Blizzard blues have posted end of Feb time frame, so MMO is spot on.
02/11/2013 10:29 AMPosted by Ihateyourmom
There are 16 bosses you have to clear on normal and then heroic, recruiting is hard enough since you changed your recruitment forums years back to be a giant clusterf* and to top it off, HOLIDAYS that maybe didn't matter when we were younger but now that we're not - we can't skip em anymore.


Certainly depending on how much time you can play, as well as other types of content (such as holiday events as you mention), your mileage may vary on how far into the expansion you are. It's definitely a balancing act between not enough content and too much, and it's not going to be the same player to player to player.

Re: Recruitment, you may want to try using the in-game /guildfinder tool, as well as your realm forum. The Raid and Guild Leadership forum is also a good place to seek advice on recruitment, and I'm sure some others here may also have recommendations on how to best focus your recruitment efforts.

02/11/2013 10:29 AMPosted by Ihateyourmom
I'm pretty irate atm and just venting but I wish you'd give us more than TWO WEEKS notice sometimes. TWO WEEKS??? Used to give us a month or two. Thanks for nothing.


I'm not aware of ever providing a month or two, we generally don't know a patch release date until a couple weeks at most before it's released. The estimate for the end of this month is still just an estimate, and could very well move.

Patch releases are dependent on many factors, not the least of which is testing and bug fixing. When we can we like to be able to give a couple weeks heads up so you can plan, and specifically prepare for currency down-conversions, as well as PvP season changes when applicable. In the past we've become a little shy about providing a heads up because if and when dates slip there's been a strong negative reaction. I think we're at a place though where the majority of people understand release dates can and do slip, and are at least appreciative of being informed.

If our estimate changes we'll let you know.
02/11/2013 10:33 AMPosted by Vardrum
Toooo soooon, executus.


LOL.
02/11/2013 10:33 AMPosted by Vardrum
Toooo soooon, executus.


I actually read the thread title in rags voice before I entered it LOL.
02/11/2013 11:21 AMPosted by Thequay
That said, four months for the raid tier is about right. If you're not done progressing, that's not Blizzard's fault. if they waited for everyone who raids to have a full clear on Heroic, we wouldn't see the patch for two years...and some peopel would still complain that they weren't ready.


Only 30% of guilds have cleared the tier on normal due to some of the tuning mistakes that caused excessive roadblocks to progression for more casual guilds. Tuning, plus the falling of three major holidays all landing during the tier severely impacts progression for most guilds, and the normal issues of maintaining rosters all culminated in delaying progression for what is obviously an enormous amount of bosses to try to chew through.

Even if you assume a single boss per week is normal progression rate, which is about right on average for most, that means Blizzard is just barely at the cusp of allowing people a single, flawless shot at seeing sha before 5.2 completely nullifies the tier as content due to the absurd ilvl jump from 5.0 raids and 5.2 starting ilvls.

Regardless of how you feel on the matter, expecting everyone to have managed 2 bosses a week through both normals and heroics just isn't a rational expectation, and the clearance rates for T14 demonstrate that. Which is genuinely odd because they keep posting about how TOC invalidating Ulduar was one of their worst development mistakes, when they're on the verge of doing the exact same thing here.
I do think that it is a little too soon. To quote someone from MMO Champ who put it quite well:

"Too short. Should be about 2 weeks per boss.

Cata's first tier lasted 29 weeks from Cata launch, with 12 bosses. Firelands lasted 22 weeks, for 7 bosses, without the start-of-expansion hiatus. Don't understand why we're only getting 22 weeks for 16 bosses now."

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1262735-So-5-2-is-out-in-two-weeks

Also, as someone mentioned earlier, there have only been 380 guilds in the entire world that have gone 16/16 HC, out of a total of 45,967 guilds that have done Stone Guardians Normal. 0.8% seeing all content... a little low imo.

http://www.guildox.com/go/g.aspx?a=6

My guild and I are currently only 9/16 on Normal content and I was hoping to see 16/16 before 5.2 (casual 2 nights a week, 2.5 hour a night raiding). Also, I find it very sad that after farming LFR Terrance for 12 weeks and finally getting Jin'ya, Orb of the Waterspeaker, and adding my legendary gem and socket, that it will probably be replaced in 2-3 weeks time.
I've honestly pretty much given up on raiding, for now at least. It's just not fun being told week after week that I can't come because I'm not a melee class. And even if I did come it wouldn't be fun wiping on Garalon for 8 hours a week for a month.
Now people are complaining that Blizzard is releasing content too fast??

Aye, you just can't get please everyone, can you?

MoP came out 5 months ago. I think that is sufficient enough time to spend on the current raiding tier. No ones stopping you from going back and finishing what's left over after 5.2 goes live.
02/11/2013 10:29 AMPosted by Ihateyourmom
I'm pretty irate atm and just venting but I wish you'd give us more than TWO WEEKS notice sometimes. TWO WEEKS??? Used to give us a month or two. Thanks for nothing.


Have they ever given 1-2 months notice? I would think the ptr just going up with be a rough guess at 2 months notice.
02/11/2013 11:32 AMPosted by Ihateyourmom


No, the best length for a raid tier should be entirely dependent on how many bosses there are.

10 months of DS, 1 year of ICC = too long.

5 months of MSV/4 months of HoF Terrace, 4 months of Ulduar = too short.

7 months of BoT/BWD/TFW = perfect.


This. 16 bosses is A LOT especially with Christmas and Thanksgiving causing most guilds to lose at least 2-3 weeks of progress.


Throw in that Blizzard decided to make it a thing to have a feat of strength for finishing a tier of content before the next releases, and you have a recipe for disaster if they release things too soon.

That few have cleared ALL of the content. That's ok with you guys? Is it a hard to understand concept that you'll have people not finishing tiers of content completely before the new one jumps in and makes the old content completely obsolete? You kind of really amped up the ilvls of the new content so much that doing even heroic of the previous tier is foolish for any progression based guilds.
02/11/2013 10:29 AMPosted by Ihateyourmom
Used to give us a month or two. Thanks for nothing.

You did get a month or two notice, when they announced 5.2 just before Christmas.

Not their fault you're slow.
Now people are complaining that Blizzard is releasing content too fast??

Aye, you just can't get please everyone, can you?

MoP came out 5 months ago. I think that is sufficient enough time to spend on the current raiding tier. No ones stopping you from going back and finishing what's left over after 5.2 goes live.


Not to pull this card, as I hate it when it's done, but have you even seen enough of the current content to make an assumption like this in this post? Is it hard to grasp that the idea of the "Cutting Edge" feats kind of makes the timing of when they release new content really important?

Finding out when new content is coming is supposed to make you feel happy, not filled with dread knowing that the new few weeks are going to be a blind panic of not pulling anymore farm content in the hopes of maybe eeking out the last boss of a tier...
02/11/2013 11:47 AMPosted by Fawnix
Toooo soooon, executus.


I actually read the thread title in rags voice before I entered it LOL.
My Twin!!! also same
I understand they're trying to push content, however seems very quick to me. There are some really scary numbers as it pertains to kills/clears.

Just from a 25 man perspective it's way, way too soon (especially considering the ilevel inflation that is on it's way.

Less than 150 guilds (World wide, less than 50 U.s.) have cleared Heroic ToS. These are like Naxx numbers.

Heroic Will: 446 (155 U.s.)
Heroic GE: 264 (86 U.s)
Heroic Sha: 146 (43 U.S)

Those are incredibly small numbers, but that's not the truly scary part (from a 25m PoV). The scary part is that while most of the bosses have been tested in 10-man normal, ZERO have been tested in 25 man, which means that for the past month(ish) blizz has been testing 2 10 man bosses a week, then gathering feedback and moving on. When it comes to the 25s which they've stayed they "don't want to see disappear", they'v decided to take 10 days or so, test all 13 and hope for the best.

Sorry, but this is really, really bad form honestly, I'm shocked that we weren't at least given till April to clear such a massive set of raids (especially considering the holidays and the gating system that was used). Very disappointing Blizz, I know you're only trying to make people happy, but this is far worse than when ToC bashed out Ulduar, bummed that it's going to be repeated.

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