Gear Idea for Random BGs

Battlegrounds
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02/11/2013 09:51 PMPosted by Softhoof
this is a horrible idea


It's funny how people playing FOTM classes decked out in full PVP gear always have the same response to this idea. You go around face rolling everyone because of this and you think that no one should have any chance to kill you. I play only bgs and have quite a few alts, so I really don't like the current gear systems because I would have to have absolutely no life to be able to gear up all my toons in the 90 bracket. At least to a point where they would have a glimmer of hope of even bringing a fully geared toon to half health. That is the reason that once my toons hit lvl 90, I stop bging altogether on that particular toon. It is way too frustrating, no INFURIATING, that a fresh lvl 90 toon has NO chance against a geared 90 toon. That is just my rant and I know these decked out toons have worked hard to earn their gear, but it's not fair nor is it very inviting to be face rolled by everyone just to get gear to begin to be competitive. In any case, I have adapted and avoid 90 bgs altogether due to the heartache caused by gear disparity. PVP should be 50% gear and 50% skill. Not 95% gear and 5% skill.

My suggestion would be to have bgs segregate entrants based on their gear level, so that fully pvp geared toons would play their "equals" and new level 90s would play against their "equals". Disable gear swapping in bgs and once que'd to prevent people from exploiting this.

Anyways, there's my rant and I hope you are all having a splendid day!

-Champ
02/12/2013 10:27 AMPosted by Caxian
I asked you is it fun to lose to someone because of your gear. Is it fun to you? Simple question.
Wrong question. The better question is what effect this idea would have on BGs and I already told you... a very negative one. Remove the incentive to win (better gear) and BGs become death matches with everyone ignoring objectives to "have fun".

Yes, clearly I am bad at this game for wanting to have more fun in random bgs on my fresh 90 alts while gearing up and not hit like a wet noodle for 3-4 weeks until I get my t1 weap, and not get hit for 200k because I just hit 90 and have no resil. Clearly.
Then spend a little time & effort to gear up. Stop looking for a handout.

02/12/2013 11:56 AMPosted by Campeon
It's funny how people playing FOTM classes decked out in full PVP gear always have the same response to this idea. You go around face rolling everyone because of this and you think that no one should have any chance to kill you.
What's really funny is that your thinking is so completely backwards. I didn't just have my gear mailed to me I earned every single piece. Before you say "it's a video game not a job" I spent RL hours gearing up (just like thousands of other players). Are you implying that our time is not as important as yours?
02/12/2013 12:00 PMPosted by Kiaransali
Remove the incentive to win (better gear) and BGs become death matches with everyone ignoring objectives to "have fun".


There's no better gear for winning, you get honor whether you win or lose. Both end up in you getting the SAME gear (honor gear). It's the same whether you're winning or losing. Also, you can't defend a node, carry a flag, or protect a flag carrier very well in quest blue/greens. So I still don't see your point. At fresh 90 you're just a moving target for the other team and you serve no other purpose than being a cc bot if you even have cc that can be used before being killed.

Then spend a little time & effort to gear up. Stop looking for a handout.


As stated before, it's not 'a little time' if you want to play multiple alts. It would take awhile to gear a lot of alts. I like leveling my alts to max level and I do so but at that point there's almost no reason to gear them because, #1 it's not fun to get smashed on by better geared players, and #2 honor gear today doesn't get you much farther in the game (this is being changed though sort of in next patch, thank goodness).
I never said give me free gear for rated things, so this isn't a handout. It's to make GEARING UP more FUN. Not to REMOVE gearing up all together. Some people seem to be ignoring that and are only reading 'MAKE GEAR EQUAL ACROSS THE ENTIRE GAME WITH NO WORK OR EFFORT PUT IN' which is not what I'm saying at all.
02/12/2013 12:17 PMPosted by Caxian
So I still don't see your point
Because you don't want to. I explained my position very clearly and effectively discounted your idea. All you are doing is complaining that it takes too long to gear alts. You aren't thinking about the big picture or the disastrous results your idea would bring to BGs. I played 3 toons last season and only 1 toon this season because I simply didn't have the time to gear 3. I'm not a special snowflake and neither are you... if you don't have the time to gear more than 1 toon then don't.

02/12/2013 12:17 PMPosted by Caxian
There's no better gear for winning, you get honor whether you win or lose
If you don't believe this will cause even more players to screw around in mid and on the roads to "have fun" you are delusional.
02/12/2013 12:29 PMPosted by Kiaransali
disastrous results


Everyone having a chance in a random bg to do what should be done (the objective) sure would be disastrous. Putting people at equal footing for a nonrated battleground wouldn't change whether they go after the objective or not. There are people who do the objective and there are people who don't, their gear doesn't determine that. The incentive is also still there to go for the objective since you'd still be gearing faster because of the winning honor gains.

02/12/2013 12:29 PMPosted by Kiaransali
If you don't believe this will cause even more players to screw around in mid and on the roads to "have fun" you are delusional.


In BGs I usually see the following: Decked people in mid farming, fresh 90s afking/botting, and then a small group doing what should be done. Now of course this is different for every bg you queue into but for me this is the usual. Gear won't change how people act in a BG, people will still act like people, meaning they'll do what they want regardless of whether you want them to do something or not.
OP you aren't listening. Thankfully Blizzard understands that progression is the best system... without it players would just screw around because there would be no incentive to win. Again inherently bad idea that would make BGs go from bad to worse.
Where did I say to remove progression? Why is that even being mentioned? I'm not even talking about progression..
02/12/2013 01:01 PMPosted by Caxian
Where did I say to remove progression? Why is that even being mentioned? I'm not even talking about progression..
It is normalized gear for BGs... several threads on the subject and all are bad ideas. You can polish a turn 500 times but it will still be a turd.
Yes I understand you think it's a bad idea. Just because you think something doesn't mean it's true. Don't have to repeat 'it's a bad idea' in the majority of your posts. That isn't feedback, that's just your opinion which doesn't help anything.
If you had a shred of credibility you lost it with this statement. Honor gear is not the best gear... it is by design the 2nd best gear (well 3rd best if you consider elite gear).


Just went back into the thread and saw this. Either you missed my point or.. I don't know. The best gear you can get from random BGs is honor gear. Which is why i said 'best'. You can technically get conquest gear from random bgs if you win like what..? At minimum 29 games a week. Which is possible but most people do 2s or rated bgs for their cap. For the majority the best gear you can get from ONLY random bgs is honor gear. That is what I meant.
02/12/2013 02:03 PMPosted by Caxian
The best gear you can get from random BGs is honor gear.
Have you been in a coma for a few years? They added conquest for WINNING a long time ago.

02/12/2013 01:56 PMPosted by Caxian
Yes I understand you think it's a bad idea. Just because you think something doesn't mean it's true. Don't have to repeat 'it's a bad idea' in the majority of your posts. That isn't feedback, that's just your opinion which doesn't help anything.
I explained in detail why it's a bad idea... if anyone is mindlessly restating their opinion it is you.
Have you been in a coma for a few years? They added conquest for WINNING a long time ago.

02/12/2013 02:03 PMPosted by Caxian
You can technically get conquest gear from random bgs if you win like what..? At minimum 29 games a week.


Ummm.. pretty sure I said that. Well at least now I know you aren't reading my whole post(s) and 'mindlessly' disagreeing because you don't like the idea.
02/12/2013 05:30 PMPosted by Caxian
Ummm.. pretty sure I said that. Well at least now I know you aren't reading my whole post(s) and 'mindlessly' disagreeing because you don't like the idea.
Many players get 1800 conquest a week purely by doing randoms. I don't recommend it, but many do. Thus saying randoms only yield honor is just flat out wrong.
02/12/2013 07:56 PMPosted by Kiaransali
Thus saying randoms only yield honor is just flat out wrong.


They didn't say randoms only yield honor. I think they just have poor choice of words, but I get what they're saying. It still doesn't make it right to normalize gear in randoms. Honor comes soo easy as it is, you can be fully honor geared in just a few days of BGs/TB/doing SHA and possibly getting an epic piece each week (which I never had luck with).
02/12/2013 07:56 PMPosted by Kiaransali
Thus saying randoms only yield honor is just flat out wrong.


I never said randoms only yield honor.. Please reread what I said.

Also, I agree honor comes easy and so does the gear. However, in the current game, honor gear doesn't save you from the people playing their mains who are in close to full/full conquest gear with upgrades. It's still difficult, sometimes impossible to overcome the gear difference.

My main concern is it would make alts more enjoyable to play instead of being forced to stick to only one or two classes throughout a season, and not even being able to play randoms enjoyably because you're at such a disadvantage gear wise. I like my alts and wish I could play them all, maybe not seriously (AKA rated bgs/arena), but in random bgs at the least. It's to give your alts an equal chance, gear wise, of winning against the people who queue with their mains. That's all.
This is an interesting idea.Only 1500 rating bg heroes would support the idea of keeping gear disparities in random bgs so that they can destroy fresh lvl 90 players.


Fixed that for you.

Also, by scaling the gear in random bgs, the number of bots would drastically decrease so... blizz would kill two birds with one stone.
02/12/2013 09:08 PMPosted by Caxian
However, in the current game, honor gear doesn't save you from the people playing their mains who are in close to full/full conquest gear with upgrades. It's still difficult, sometimes impossible to overcome the gear difference.
I do it on a practically daily basis. I run in groups and my teammates tend to have an item level around 460-465 (which is upgraded dreadful and maybe 1-2 malev). We have kicked the living bejesus out of teams that had better gear and more healers simply by playing better than they did.

Fixed that for you.

Also, by scaling the gear in random bgs, the number of bots would drastically decrease so... blizz would kill two birds with one stone.
You have it completely backwards, but I guess opinions are like buttholes.....
02/12/2013 10:11 AMPosted by Caxian
Do people actually enjoy grinding honor when they first hit 90 and are fighting against fully geared players? Sure sounds like you guys enjoy being useless in a BG or being destroyed every time you get near someone else. Or maybe you guys just AFK BGs to grind your honor?


I do have fun getting slaughtered by people with better gear. Do you know why? (Get ready cause this is a crazy thought.) It's an MMORPG. Sure it was tough as a fresh level 90, but I found other ways to contribute to my team such as making calls, scouting, cc, ect.

What was even more fun was feeling a noticeable difference in my survivability as my pvp res. went up. I love the gear progression. That's the point of playing an rpg. If you don't enjoy that then go play cod or something.
02/12/2013 11:10 AMPosted by Edgemaiden
Gear normalization would remove this incentive for many players, thus resulting in BGs becoming mindless death matches.


This! For many, the grind is the only reason they might even try to do anything other than smash buttons fighting on the roads.


The evidence suggests this is wrong. Twinking brackets (who have no incentive at all to gear or get xp) are usually very objective focused. I've encountered far more cap level players (and those doing bgs for xp) fighting in the roads.

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