Fix Boomkin PVP (specifically Eclipse)

Druid


Druid popped CDs? Ignore him and cry when he wrecks someone....
Do you ignore a warrior when he pops his skill macro?

Go full peel mode. Once the CDs are down the druid is countered by dispel for the next 3 mins.


Druid popped cds and within ~2 seconds he hit a 188k starsurge. He wasn't being ignored as you saw the shaman quickly switch to purge and/or ground anything incoming.
How are you supposed to peel a two-shot especially when it's a caster.
I haven't seen warriors 2 shotting anyone since they nerfed TFB.


a) I don't recall saying that I wanted anything else.... Although dot protection would be nice. I just laugh when a random shammy that has never played a boomkin comes onto druid forums and starts saying they are better than they actually are.

b) A spammable hot that hits for 8-10k in BG / Arena's... LOL! -> Sure that's good if you are not being attacked by anything (unless maybe a frost mage pet.... cuz if anything else is on you, this is not going to keep you up). If nothing else is attacking you, you'd be better off using Healin touch

c) Insert Warrior damage logs from bg's... or any class with a stun (I've literally died in shockwaves from full in BG's when focused).

d) You mean the moonfires that hit for 15-20k crits on pvp geared people? -> That's really threatening isn't it? LMAO....
Not to mention, if you were spamming moonfire / starfire on people, you run the risk of overriding a previous one that could be buffed by Nature's grace (Assuming you just went into an eclipse)... or maybe you just left an eclipse state from using a starsurge proc while running... you could be overriding one that is eclipsed


a) You mentioned burst before as if it such a nag for you having to pop 3 min cds in order to smash someone. My bad if I thought you were complaining. Random? I'm not random. I've posted on the druid forums quite a few times over the past few years. Keep trying to say I've never played a boomkin, all it's doing it making you look silly.

b) The hot will keep your partner up during a down time. If you're getting trained you could just spam it. You could cast Healing Touch, but as you said before
"any window licker can interrupt it".. unless you know how to juke.

c) Bgs... seriously? Anyway... you can be healed while stunned. Cyclone can prevent healing on a kill target on top of not sharing a DR.

d) While you're laughing at how you're leaving *insert melee here* in the dust with your mobility you can be spaming moon/sunfire. I'm not sure how 15k-20k crits on spamable spells aren't threatening.


You don't get to turret in PvP.

what. You shouldn't be able to 100% of the time, but you should
be able to,

Have you ever tried to juke a 2.5sec cast? "Oh look, healing touch, lets just see if the cast is still going 1sec later." *1sec later* "Still casting? Kick. Not casting anymore? Lol, 2.5sec casts are hard to spot."

I have. It's not that hard. I'm also unsure what this whole "2.5 sec cast" thing is about. Highest I've seen on a geared player is ~2.15


Because Kidney Shot, Shockwave, etc on the kill target never works.

I'm not talking about stuns. Cyclone is not built like a stun. If you want a stun pick up mighty bash.


Shapeshifting is on the GCD. Moonfire is on the GCD. Dropping Moonkin Form causes us to lose our 15% reduction. If I'm powershifting Moonkin Form and Travel Form because I'm being trained by melee, obviously I'm not casting Moonfire or anything to apply counter-pressure.

I'm aware of the GCD, but it is still very possible to spam sun/moonfire while kiting.

You mean during the times of Panzerkins and their 450%-ish armor bonus? Because things never change after 5 years, am I right?

What I said also implies I still am playing a boomkin. He flat out said I've never played a boomkin, like a fool. In no way does that mean I am blind to the fact it's been 5 years.
I'm not saying boomkins are the best spec in the game guys, but they aren't near as bad as you're making them out to be.
what. You shouldn't be able to 100% of the time, but you should be able to,

"Turret" implies I stand in my nice little spot and hardcast away. Simple answer: no, being able to hardcast for more than 8seconds in PvP is non-existent. If I were to freecast for 8sec, then move for 2sec, repeating, my effective output is cut down by 20%; but now factor it the fact I need to stop casting Starfire, so really, it's 2-3 Starfires AT BEST before forced movement. Which effectively cuts down our damage up to 33-50%.

02/13/2013 04:38 PMPosted by Christipor
I have. It's not that hard. I'm also unsure what this whole "2.5 sec cast" thing is about. Highest I've seen on a geared player is ~2.15

Successfully juking with a crappy HT is not easy (some people jump the gun). Cyclone and other major spells are far easier to juke with (and it really comes down to which spells you're trying to juke with). Healing Touch on a Moonkin? You take your sweet time before interrupting that. Cyclone? Less time to react, less time to decide if it's going be become a juke.

02/13/2013 04:38 PMPosted by Christipor
I'm not talking about stuns. Cyclone is not built like a stun. If you want a stun pick up mighty bash.

You are talking about CC. Stuns are part of this category. Cyclone is part of this same category. And how about warlocks chain-spamming Fear on the kill target to forcefully shut down any actions(usually a healer in this case)? Cyclone is similar only to Banish. Cyclone is the banishment effect for players.

02/13/2013 04:38 PMPosted by Christipor
I'm aware of the GCD, but it is still very possible to spam sun/moonfire while kiting.

Right, because we can totally keep up Lunar Shower like that. Even then, it's ~5k for direct damage.
You are talking about CC. Stuns are part of this category. Cyclone is part of this same category. And how about warlocks chain-spamming Fear on the kill target to forcefully shut down any actions(usually a healer in this case)? Cyclone is similar only to Banish. Cyclone is the banishment effect for players.


I wasn't referring to CC in general. I was asking why you would want to attack a target while cycloned. If you could damage the target while cycloned, it would also allow healing. Cyclone is not a stun. It would destroy the whole cyclone kill target so he doesn't get healed thing that makes druids more viable. You're the one who decided to throw in other classes's CC, not I.

You can turret in arenas if you're team isn't to terrible. Really isn''t that hard unless you're the kill target. in which it doesn't matter anyhow.

A majority of what you're talking about is simply a a 'l2p issue'.
This appears this has turned into a "What if" conversation.
"What if this happens and I can't do this! Type an explanation out to me to allow me to misinterpret you and make more strawmans to make this topic go for 10 pages!"

I made a mistake in trying to make sense of this topic. I should have just referred to Mr. Bandet:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7811302453?page=1
@Christipor

I'm not sure why you are using a 30 second video of someone getting rolled for not reacting to enemy CDs as justification to call out an entire spec. Playing at a 2300+ mmr in 3s, there is a trend that I've seen where people can just simply LoS the second I have NV/Incarn up(Reason I pop these first is to max damage during CDs, which I have to alternate depending on team).

I can agree with you on the fact Starsurge has the capability to 2 shot people during cooldowns, it's stupid. With the introduction of MoP I feel like every DPS class has some sort of CD stacking capability which makes damage seem fairly broken at times, which has contributed to the downfall of PvP interest during this expansion.

The 10% nerf to NV might help with the ridiculous starsurge numbers, but the real problem was the combination of NV+Incarnation. Notice how Incarnation actually makes beneficial playstyle changes for every spec except balance, which gets a flat 25% damage bonus. Incarn+NV combined gives us a 50% damage bonus, hence the incredible starsurge procs during that time.

To go back to sustained damage, it's fairly unrewarding as far as damage contribution goes. We are actually better off fishing for starsurge procs via dots, while positioning to control certain targets.


a) You mentioned burst before as if it such a nag for you having to pop 3 min cds in order to smash someone. My bad if I thought you were complaining. Random? I'm not random. I've posted on the druid forums quite a few times over the past few years. Keep trying to say I've never played a boomkin, all it's doing it making you look silly.


What you are saying is a clear identification that you have not played a boomkin


b) The hot will keep your partner up during a down time. If you're getting trained you could just spam it. You could cast Healing Touch, but as you said before
"any window licker can interrupt it".. unless you know how to juke.


This is REALLY laughable. even a hunter's pet does more than 10k damage to you per second. Spamming Rejuv won't keep you up when anyone is on you... if you played a boomkin, you would know this. -> Unless you are playing against mouth breathing window lickers in random bg's that are in full blues (then MAYBE you might live while spamming rejuv... but you won't be killing anything and therefore wasting time)


c) Bgs... seriously? Anyway... you can be healed while stunned. Cyclone can[i] prevent healing on a kill target on top of not sharing a DR.


There is still a very high chance of killing people in stuns, because they can't do to many defensive things while people get to attack them.

There is a 0% chance of killing someone in a cyclone.


d) While you're laughing at how you're leaving *insert melee here* in the dust with your mobility you can be spaming moon/sunfire. I'm not sure how 15k-20k crits on spamable spells aren't threatening.

Hmmmm what melee class can't spam slow / charge / deathgrip / chains of ice / frost shock?

Also, like i said before... if you are running, you are either doing no damage at all (power shifting slows while more than likely dying from any ranged attacks / dots they might have on you... so if you do manage to get a good distance away you have to heal yourself... by which time they catch up to you and start the process again) or spamming moonfire which normal hits for 8-9k on pvp geared people (crits for 15-20k) -> Laughable.


I have. It's not that hard. I'm also unsure what this whole "2.5 sec cast" thing is about. Highest I've seen on a geared player is ~2.15


If you played moonkin, you would know that Haste is not one of our best stats as of right now for pvp, a cast time like that would suggest using haste (which we don't).


I'm not talking about stuns. Cyclone is not built like a stun. If you want a stun pick up mighty bash.


We were forced to decide between stun / vortex


I'm aware of the GCD, but it is still very possible to spam sun/moonfire while kiting.


Sure this is possible, but doing 8-20k dmg every GCD is not much pressure is it? Not to mention as soon as you shapeshift you are no longer putting out this laughable damage.

On a sidenote... I want to see one moonkin spamming moonfire on another one and the other one spamming rejuv on himself now, that would be the most pathetic fight in the world.

[quote=1400 shaman]
What I said also implies I still am playing a boomkin. He flat out said I've never played a boomkin, like a fool. In no way does that mean I am blind to the fact it's been 5 years.


If you do play a moonkin, i bet you've only done normal BG's (or maybe 1400 RBG's like your shaman)
02/13/2013 07:28 PMPosted by Christipor
"What if this happens and I can't do this! Type an explanation out to me to allow me to misinterpret you and make more strawmans to make this topic go for 10 pages!"

You're providing the training dummy examples. We gave you a couple examples of actual PvP experiences which contradict your own opinion. In fact, I'd be surprised if you would post on your 450+ ilvl Druid (if even that.)

02/13/2013 07:28 PMPosted by Christipor
You can turret in arenas if you're team isn't to terrible. Really isn''t that hard unless you're the kill target. in which it doesn't matter anyhow.

No. You can turret if the other team is terrible. As a Moonkin you are ALWAYS the kill target. If you're not the target: refer to: Window Lickers.

02/13/2013 07:28 PMPosted by Christipor
I made a mistake in trying to make sense of this topic. I should have just referred to Mr. Bandet

You made another mistake by linking a thread by one of the most whiny forum-posters in the community. 99% of all his posts are either "this is bad, plz fix" or sarcasm with a hint of QQ.11
good sustained.


yeah spamming moonfire is good sustained
02/14/2013 11:49 AMPosted by Plibt
good sustained.


yeah spamming moonfire is good sustained


TROLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOL
also don't like the fact that this spec became so reliant on RNG. only times you do decent damage is when you get decent starsurge procs and you have no power over that. which is not a fun playstyle
02/12/2013 10:14 AMPosted by Pïpo
we are still lacking In damage output


balance is one of the highest damages in pvp. notice your button called astrial communion if your having trouble getting into an eclipse state. stack crit for starsurge procs and benefit.
Hey everyone as many of you are aware Although playing a druid is extremely fun, playing the balance spec is very hard and unforgiving in PVP. Although We have great mobility and decent CC we are still lacking In damage output and Survivavility.

The only time We can put out some decent Damage is every 3 minutes when we blow all of our big cool downs. Then we become almost useless for the next three minutes.


I'll leave this video here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ACZpF9x1JA
0:27 boomkin two shot.

Boomkin damage to hard QQ.


I agree that our burst is retarded in that interval of time, out side of it we throw pillows. We're a lot like ret pallys. Really has to smoothen out the damage, which is what I feel blizz is doing when nerfing NV.

Still doesn't change the fact that we're squishy as !@#$. It's either blow their faces ASAP, or watch your self be chopped up.

Besides... our damage with all our CDs up is like Spriests and frost mages on the regular. And more so next patch...

Besides... our damage with all our CDs up is like Spriests and frost mages on the regular. And more so next patch...

LOL WUT? don't post if you're going to make a mockery of yourself. Boomy dmg (overall) is highest in the game in an rbg setting. Mages/spriests can't touch your dmg as boom if you don't suck.
We can have ridiculously good dmg with a bit of RNG with back to back Starsurge. Even better if they crit. It so happens that we also need crit to get more Starsurge procs. With each season, we gain somewhere around 5% crit (with full reforge). Couple that with 5% aura (mages) and we'll be hitting ~28% crit next season. Even more after that season.

Where we lack in the hardcasting department, we make up for it in decent mobility and spread dmg; keeping dots rolling on 2 or 3 targets gets you just enough free globals to send Starsurge procs and keep Rejuv up on yourself.

9% buff to casts accross the board...

Balance is, if anything, the most underestimated OP class of next season.

PS : We already destroy RBGs.
It took me a fairly decent number of BGs to get used to the rotations, big damage and what to do to maximize damage. In BGs just dot everything up, blow CDs and starsurge kill targets. I'm in half resto gear and still melt face with no problem.
I didn't realize boomkin damage was so bad! Last I recall I've topped dmg in every bg or rbg I've ever done...and saw some other boomkin do 39mil dmg in an rbg, but yeah, boomkin dmg needs a buff gogo blizz!


It isn't. This forum however is like every other class forum, with a long queue of sub par players lining up to demand buffs, none of which are going to help them stop being backpeddling clickers.

@ OP, you are a dot cleaver, not a direct damage nuker. Your role in an RBG especially isn't to land kills as much as create situations where kills are possible, through dot pressure and good beam placement.

If you want to play a direct nuker like a destruction warlock, go make one. If you don't want to reroll, just be happy that every spec we have (if you count feral and guardian as interchangable) we have is desirable in most ideal RBG setups. If you gave most players with legit 2200+ xp the opportunity to setup an ideal comp, with an unlimited supply of equal geared and skilled teammates, most people would pick something like this -

FC - Guardian or Prot war, with more guardians than not

Heals1 - Resto Shaman (some MW monk in this slot)
heals2 - Holy Pally
Heals3 - Resto Druid (some MW monk in this slot)

DPS1 - lock
DPS2 - lock
DPS3 - mage
DPS4 - DK
DPS5 - Boom
DPS6 - rogue OR spriest OR another lock

Some classes aren't even represented in this list, and we have a slot for our trees, our chickens and our bears. Druids are fine, balance druids are fine. Cheers.
^^what he said, and yeah you're right. Most class forums are just major QQ >< Disc pvp is seeing buffs, yet they complain there...boom is ridiculous, yet they complain here...MW and WW are seeing buffs, yet they still complain lol.

Besides... our damage with all our CDs up is like Spriests and frost mages on the regular. And more so next patch...

LOL WUT? don't post if you're going to make a mockery of yourself. Boomy dmg (overall) is highest in the game in an rbg setting. Mages/spriests can't touch your dmg as boom if you don't suck.


Okay okay, I mayyyyyyy have exaggerated... a little. And yes, I always am on the top. Still, other casters hurt. >.>

http://i.imgur.com/LSY9Pn5.jpg

Hypocritical pic related.
Druids can cast heals, warlocks can't. !


Wait, what?
i seriously cba to read this article so i dont get a headache

but first of all in pvp you aren't hard casting that often.. you're going to be throwing up dots on everyone you can in the right amount of time, and spamming SS on the main target. whether you're on CDs or not, this can be deathly. And with vortex/beam, cyclone, roots, and displacer beast, nobody can touch you. if youre going to complain about a 20% damage increase or whatever it is, you're doing it all wrong.

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