Why Shouldn't the Alliance Surrender?

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Nazgrim tells the Horde not to take any prisoners either.

Lok'tar Ogar only goes so far I guess.
02/12/2013 09:17 PMPosted by Juibloc
they werent not surrendering either, they were swimming to shore.


If they weren't surrendering, IE, calling for surrender, etc, then by definition, they were 'not surrendering'.
02/12/2013 09:21 PMPosted by Arkturas
If they weren't surrendering, IE, calling for surrender, etc, then by definition, they were 'not surrendering'.


Correct.

There are such things as amphibious invasions, and the Orcs were still a threat, especially if they decided to forgo the empty shores flanking their sides to swim directly AT the Alliance position.
Has the Horde managed to win any significant victories against the Alliance since they landed on Pandaria?

I know the Alliance won a pretty big victory over the Horde at the Temple of the Red Crane, and the whole Divine Bell incident was a net loss for the Horde (or at least for Garrosh; he lost the popular support of the Blood Elves, he couldn't stop the Alliance from destroying the bell, and he couldn't even kill Anduin when he had the chance).
Has the Horde managed to win any significant victories against the Alliance since they landed on Pandaria?


Horde was won nothing, and have been fighting each other no less. Jade forest was a huge Alliance victory with them exiting the zone with their entire fleet and airship...Horde lost 100% of it's troops, ships, and air power.

Then in 5.1, Trolls go to war against the Orcs with lots of elite units killed, and meanwhile Alliance gain Dalaran, the August Celestials, and Monkey King.
Has the Horde managed to win any significant victories against the Alliance since they landed on Pandaria?


Horde was won nothing, and have been fighting each other no less. Jade forest was a huge Alliance victory with them exiting the zone with their entire fleet and airship...Horde lost 100% of it's troops, ships, and air power.

Then in 5.1, Trolls go to war against the Orcs with lots of elite units killed, and meanwhile Alliance gain Dalaran, the August Celestials, and Monkey King.


In other words, the Alliance would be "quitting while they're ahead" if they surrendered at this point, wouldn't they?


Horde was won nothing, and have been fighting each other no less. Jade forest was a huge Alliance victory with them exiting the zone with their entire fleet and airship...Horde lost 100% of it's troops, ships, and air power.

Then in 5.1, Trolls go to war against the Orcs with lots of elite units killed, and meanwhile Alliance gain Dalaran, the August Celestials, and Monkey King.


In other words, the Alliance would be "quitting while they're ahead" if they surrendered at this point, wouldn't they?


War isn't a sporting event.


In other words, the Alliance would be "quitting while they're ahead" if they surrendered at this point, wouldn't they?


War isn't a sporting event.


And surrendering to a weaker enemy is not a sound military strategy either.


War isn't a sporting event.


And surrendering to a weaker enemy is not a sound military strategy either.


I can't hear you from the wins we have at Kalimdor and Azeroth... ohh you have panda land?? well I don't think they will let you strip mine the land mass.

So as we were saying lets finally take ashenvale and gilneas while the pink skins are at panda land helping them kill some mogu.
They might as well. Maybe if they all just refuse to take part Blizzard will step up and start making the plot sensible again.
I can't hear you from the wins we have at Kalimdor and Azeroth...


Which has only made the Horde equal to the Alliance in terms of territory.

And Garrosh has conscripted every man, woman, and child in the Horde to assist in the war effort, and he still can't win decisive victories over the Alliance.

If the Horde is fighting at full strength against the Alliance, which isn't, and can only achieve stalemates against the Alliance, what does that say about which side is stronger?


War isn't a sporting event.


And surrendering to a weaker enemy is not a sound military strategy either.


We're not discussing military strategy. We're discussing the merit in continuing to fight the war and what motiviations and goals the Alliance actually has. Or lack thereof.

It seems to me that Alliance posters are utterly convinced the Horde will wipe them out completely if the Alliance were to ever stop fighting. However, NPCs in the game do not seem to think they're in a life or death struggle. Varian's stance upon reaching Pandaria is to "protect the land from the Horde", which really boils down to simply getting in the Horde's way. And for what reason are they getting in the Horde's way? They like the trees?

The impression is that the Alliance acts to get in the Horde's way, but will never do anything to directly threaten the Horde.


And surrendering to a weaker enemy is not a sound military strategy either.


We're not discussing military strategy. We're discussing the merit in continuing to fight the war and what motiviations and goals the Alliance actually has. Or lack thereof.

It seems to me that Alliance posters are utterly convinced the Horde will wipe them out completely if the Alliance were to ever stop fighting. However, NPCs in the game do not seem to think they're in a life or death struggle. Varian's stance upon reaching Pandaria is to "protect the land from the Horde", which really boils down to simply getting in the Horde's way. And for what reason are they getting in the Horde's way? They like the trees?

The impression is that the Alliance acts to get in the Horde's way, but will never do anything to directly threaten the Horde.


Look at it this way: You can either fight the Horde with all your pals over some continent you don't even care about, or you can just go home. Which is more exciting?

Look at it this way: You can either fight the Horde with all your pals over some continent you don't even care about, or you can just go home. Which is more exciting?


So you are saying Pandaria is the Alliance's Vietnam?

Look at it this way: You can either fight the Horde with all your pals over some continent you don't even care about, or you can just go home. Which is more exciting?


So you are saying Pandaria is the Alliance's Vietnam?


I'm saying what else are the Alliance gonna do with their time if they aren't fighting the Horde?

Look at it this way: You can either fight the Horde with all your pals over some continent you don't even care about, or you can just go home. Which is more exciting?


So you are saying Pandaria is the Alliance's Vietnam?


And Pandaria is way nicer than 'Nam. Even to fight in.
Apparently the Alliance is really strong when they're protecting others but terrible when protecting themselves.
02/13/2013 12:23 AMPosted by Kroxxigar
I'm saying what else are the Alliance gonna do with their time if they aren't fighting the Horde?


Taking back Westfall
Taking back Duskwood
Taking back Redridge
Taking back Gnomeregan
Cleansing Teldrassil
Cleansing Felwood
Cleansing Eastern Plaguelands
Curing King Magni
Securing Titan technology out of Uldum/Ulduar
Taking back Stromgarde
Fixing Menethil Harbor
Fixing Theramore
Fixing Auberdine
Fixing Stonewrought Dam
Fixing Stormwind
Colonizing Northrend
Colonizing Pandaria

But no, the Alliance in Blizzard's mind ONLY exists to antagonize and oppose the Horde.

GG NO RE
02/13/2013 12:23 AMPosted by Kroxxigar
I'm saying what else are the Alliance gonna do with their time if they aren't fighting the Horde?


Fighting threats other then the Horde.

The Alliance can be seen as a sort of shield to protect it's constituent members against all that would threaten them, Horde or otherwise. It just so happens that the Horde has traditionally been one of the top threats the Alliance is protecting it's members against.

Even if there aren't any immediate threats to the existence of Alliance around (unlikely to happen within the scope of WoW), most members will probably stay in the Alliance just in case something else surfaces or simply to ensure a good trading relationship with everyone else.
02/13/2013 12:31 PMPosted by Turagent
I'm saying what else are the Alliance gonna do with their time if they aren't fighting the Horde?


Colonizing Pandaria


Why should the Alliance colonize Pandaria when it belongs to the Pandaren(and Mogu, and Hozen, etc)?

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