defensive cds

Arenas
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You severely underestimate how beneficial 30% damage reduction is, especially when it lasts 15 seconds (which is pretty lengthy for a defensive cooldown) and has a 1 minute cooldown, which is exceptionally short for how beneficial the ability is as a whole.

Collectively, Shaman defenses suck, but that doesn't stop Shamanistic Rage from being one of the strongest defensive cooldowns in the game.


While it's good, it's nothing without a strong toolkit to back it. Rogues can talent/glyph for a no CD 7 second 30% reduced damage CD, mages next patch can talent against anything hitting less than ~15k damage (DoTs, DW melee swings, Non ice lances, lightning bolt) have 30% damage reduction.


I understand this, which is why I already made it clear that Shaman defenses in general suck. It doesn't stop Shamanistic Rage from being a very powerful defensive cooldown, however. It just sucks that Shaman have one very worthwhile defensive cooldown and then... nothing else worthwhile, really.
02/19/2013 10:35 PMPosted by Gebece
A 30% reduction in damage taken for 15 seconds every minute that halts offensive mana consumption, can be used while stunned and (when glyphed) removes all dispellable harmful Magic effects is one of the best defensive cooldowns you could ask for.


Give me your bubble , and have my Shamanistic Rage. You will be prosper and happy.


Bubble might as well not exist with all the wars and spriests around. That ability is dispelled the moment you pop it 99% of the time.
Paladins are silly easy to kill even without a bubble pop on your team.
Against melee I'd say dks.
02/20/2013 06:28 AMPosted by Conslol
i get the feeling you would had said the same thing if it was the other way


Nope, bubble is horribly overrated and somehow shamanistic rage is regarded as trash when it's one of the best defensive cooldowns to date. I have never preached bubble being a great cooldown, and honestly, it's horrible for a 5 minute CD.



OK i want blind back (u can remove repentence) and spirit link totem instead of bubble like sanctified said a very very long time ago :p
02/20/2013 12:07 PMPosted by Kitteykat
OK i want blind back (u can remove repentence) and spirit link totem instead of bubble like sanctified said a very very long time ago :p


How is this relevant? And I rather make rep 0.5 cast, and take blind out if that's cool.
02/20/2013 06:28 AMPosted by Conslol
Nope, bubble is horribly overrated and somehow shamanistic rage is regarded as trash when it's one of the best defensive cooldowns to date. I have never preached bubble being a great cooldown, and honestly, it's horrible for a 5 minute CD.


Bubble isn't overrated , at least I already said dispersion>bubble any time multiple times. Duration of dispersion is long enough to recover 99% of the time.

Passive DR and immunity cooldowns are strong in different ways. Immunity cooldowns like ToK , Bubble , Deter is superior to others while your healer is cc'ed. They can buy you enough time , if you can use them and cover them.

Passive DRs lower your opponents sustained pressure , and your healer is risking himself less by hardcasting. Shamanistic Rage isn't a great cooldown when your healer is cc'ed. I'm claiming dispersion is better than bubble because its not counterable and its on shorter cooldown.

Warriors almost have a passive Shamanistic Rage , if thats good enough they would never need to use other defensive cooldowns they have. You need stronger cooldowns when your healer is cc'ed , this is core of my argument. Shamanistic Rage is irrelevant versus cooldown stacking this expansion.

Posted by Gebece
Spoiled community is spoiled.

There's deep irony in this, but I'll let you figure out all of this yourself. Your ignorance will turn into stupidity unfixable by any other means excluding wisdom, stubbornness being the cause of this trait.


You are free to believe what you want to believe about me. I remember one psychologist friend of mine told me , if you do favors to people consistently people stop appreciating them and those favors turn into expected routines. Rets had very strong comps to play and they were popular last expansion. Its normal for them to be spoiled and expect the same treatment. I remember last time , Enhance and Elemental Shamans were really popular was s8 and s9. I'm not being subjective, people aren't willing to play with Enhance or Rets atm and we are used to it , its something relatively new for Rets.


Bubble isn't overrated , at least I already said dispersion>bubble any time multiple times. Duration of dispersion is long enough to recover 99% of the time.



i know this is arenas... but dispersion feels broken that it can be used while holding a flag in a bg or a orb in kotomogu
02/20/2013 12:56 PMPosted by Lobster
DKs and your traditional healer Disc aren't good enough , or people can't play them well anymore. Rets also lost their own personal cc chain which was helping them a lot to score a kill. No more instant repentance... You guys are ignoring all these facts and blaming your defensives for the poor performance of Rets this season. I don't blame you because you guys got used to certain standards last season. Its harsh for you guys not to be able to play a comp which doesn't work as good when you replace the Ret, but its a daily routine for Enhance Shamans. Spoiled community is spoiled.

Spare me your greasy shaman tears please. There were a lot of factors contributing to ret's less-than-stellar performance this season. The main chunk of our PVP survival being tied to a dispellable 5min cooldown was only part of it.

My point is, against the insane damage from broken classes and overpowered mechanics this season, few specs had/have meaningful defenses.


Rets are part of the insane retarded Mongloid Damage going on currently. The ability to pop your CDs and beat on some one. A pet that is not affected by slows, and is not CCable and hits for a decent amount while giving the pally a buff in the process. GOAK needs to not be immune to the world or Feral Spirits need some major help, they are not a damage CD but a defensive CD that does near no healing, and are fully CCable.
02/20/2013 01:53 PMPosted by Gebece
I'm not being subjective, people aren't willing to play with Enhance or Rets atm and we are used to it , its something relatively new for Rets.


Although I'm shocked at the difference in opinions when it comes to bubble shamanistic rage, I do not imply a condescending nature. The nature of people you described is incredibly true, people do not like change. I worry that Monks will HAVE to reach a clearly overpowered status just so people will play with them to figure out their comps and what not.

The biggest problem is that people play whats optimal, not whats fun.
In my opinion based on ptr ,Rogues will more likely to reach overpowered status not Monks. Monk self heals are dead , and they take so much sustained damage and end up using Touch of Karma before the !@#$ happens. Monk with a good healer is lethal though. It is all about the way one describe overpowered. I define overpowered by achieving high ratings with very low skill cap or overpowered at higher brackets like ferals. Warriors fit into the first category , thats why so many rerollers got very high this season. Monks will probably fit in to the second category.
DPS shamans are so delusional that they think Sham Rage is bad rofl
02/20/2013 02:55 PMPosted by Schnappi
DPS shamans are so delusional that they think Sham Rage is bad rofl


When the entire defensive toolkit is considered, it is bad. In a vacuum? Sure it's good.
Death Knights have much better survivability than Hunters.
02/20/2013 03:28 PMPosted by Ryiutiz
Death Knights have much better survivability than Hunters.


lol
Shadow Priests have the worst survivability.

Get @ Me


lol#2
02/20/2013 03:28 PMPosted by Ryiutiz
Death Knights have much better survivability than Hunters.


jk 15% passive DR double deterrence endless CC's endless roots endless outs crit immunity

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