Varian, an actually High King?

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A high king is a king who holds a position of seniority over a group of other kings, without the title of Emperor; compare King of Kings. A high king is a king superior to other kings.

but in this game i wouldn't read too much into the title. Varian leading the alliance is a good thing. the other race leaders don't seem to have a problem with it.


That's only because Blizzard is being stupid in it's writing.It's stupid of Blizzard to call him the High King. It should have been named the SAC or just make someone else the SAC and let Varian rule his kingdom without the distraction of also commanding the Alliance war effort. Realistically, they should be objecting to that and put constraints on his authority. Say that he can only command what troops they lend him and that they can call those troops home anytime they want. He should not be able to command all of the Alliance armies and navies.
but in this game i wouldn't read too much into the title. Varian leading the alliance is a good thing. the other race leaders don't seem to have a problem with it.


Because Blizzard is throwing them under the bus to do so. Varian could take over Darnassus, tear down the temple and put a giant statue of himself giving the finger to the moon and Blizzard could write Tyrande being perfectly fine with it. That doesn't mean it fits.
I strongly objected to the High King idea when it first appeared, because I thought from the name that he'd be not just the military leader. (I still think the name is confusing for its purpose, but oh well...)

I think, however, that I easily could like the High King idea, but it has not been presented well at all. A Little Patience, while it can be argued either way about completely stomping on Tyrande's character or showing her in her reckless/headstrong WC3 persona, was not done very well.

I'd have been happy with the trials if they were presented more as the other faction leaders seeing Varian in action and going "Hey, this guy's competent. I don't have to worry about him sending my troops out to die because he doesn't understand their strengths and weaknesses. I can leave my troops here with him so that I can deal with issues at home now."

That, in turn, would imply Varian (and the playerbase) seeing and learning about the individuality of the Alliance races, their racial strengths and weaknesses, and show how they can all fit together these varied traits (Human and dwarf footsoldiers on the front line, night elven archers and druids fighting from range behind them, dwarven mortar teams and gnomish engineers working on siege weapons in the back, draenei priests healing from the back while vindicators charge to the front, worgen and night elf ambushers sneaking around the enemy's flank, etc.) into a cohesive army.
I'd have preferred each leader actually teaching Varian a lesson on leadership that makes the other faction leaders look actually good at their jobs, as well as bestowing Varian some degree of understanding. And even then I'd say it'd just be for military control of units specifically pledged to his service.

It could've been a tool to showcase all the leaders one at a time, showing their strengths. Instead it was just Varian shoved down our throats at the expense of those leader's personalities.
Realistically, they should be objecting to that and put constraints on his authority. Say that he can only command what troops they lend him and that they can call those troops home anytime they want. He should not be able to command all of the Alliance armies and navies.


Yes. It feels like there are no constraints and the other leaders just willingly handed their people over to Varian.
I'd have preferred each leader actually teaching Varian a lesson on leadership that makes the other faction leaders look actually good at their jobs, as well as bestowing Varian some degree of understanding. And even then I'd say it'd just be for military control of units specifically pledged to his service.


I'd gotten the impression from Varian at the start of MoP that he was supposed to have learned all those sorts of lessons already. Eh, I don't like it, but as long as he doesn't stomp over all the other leaders (like I think he did to Tyrande) in the other trials -- merely showing his own competence as opposed to showing the other's apparent lack of competence, I'll be fine with it.

I also got the impression that Varian was in charge of just the forces on Pandaria, because that's where he's fighting right now. I don't think he would (Or at least he shouldn't) be able to command all his allies' troops across the globe, because that'd be a heck of a long time between when commands are issued and received.
it seems a lot of you are making Varian out as a dictator. high King is a honorary title that deals with leadership/command and politics. the individual kingdoms still rule themselves. he has command of the various militaries because it easier to coordinate that way.
02/18/2013 01:32 PMPosted by Sefoniel
it seems a lot of you are making Varian out as a dictator. high King is a honorary title that deals with leadership/command and politics. the individual kingdoms still rule themselves. he has command of the various militaries because it easier to coordinate that way.


Where does military end? Almost anything could fall under military decision.
02/18/2013 01:32 PMPosted by Sefoniel
it seems a lot of you are making Varian out as a dictator. high King is a honorary title that deals with leadership/command and politics. the individual kingdoms still rule themselves. he has command of the various militaries because it easier to coordinate that way.


It violates the spirit of what an Alliance means.
02/18/2013 01:32 PMPosted by Sefoniel
it seems a lot of you are making Varian out as a dictator. high King is a honorary title that deals with leadership/command and politics. the individual kingdoms still rule themselves. he has command of the various militaries because it easier to coordinate that way.


He doesn't even have control of their militaries, he just has control of the militaries that the other races let him use, assuming of course he is just S.A.C.

But the problem is that they obviously didn't intend for him to be that.
02/18/2013 12:05 PMPosted by Lena
Two things, 1) harnessing the sha as weapon seem like a pretty military decision 2) Stormwind does have a powerful say considering its the nation fielding the largest fighting force of the Alliance.


It wasn't just a military decision. That's the point. How far does military go? It was a choice on whether or not the alliance would be corrupted by the sha.

Paladins are pretty cool, maybe Varian should make the night elves worship the light so we have more paladins for the army. Seems like a military decision. Or maybe draenei should be forced to have warlocks since they're great spell casters. Oh, another military decision.

How far does his power go? If he's in control on whether or not the alliance get's sha corrupted that's way, way too much power. Basically anything could be made as a "military decision."


Also this..
"It violates the spirit of what an Alliance means." no it doesn't. when an alliance of nations fights a war they usually appoint a military leader. this is no different from when General Montgomery was given command of the Allied forces in WWII.

and you have to remember Varian was appointed high king, the other leaders of the alliance follow him because they choose to.

Garrosh on the other hand is a tyrannical dictator and the other horde leaders follow him because they have no choice.
02/18/2013 02:23 PMPosted by Sefoniel
"It violates the spirit of what an Alliance means." no it doesn't. when an alliance of nations fights a war they usually appoint a military leader. this is no different from when General Montgomery was given command of the Allied forces in WWII.


The difference being Montgomery was not a country leader, nor did he have political sway, nor did he control the entire military of all factions for the entire duration of the war. Nor did he have these armies sworn to him personally.

02/18/2013 01:32 PMPosted by Sefoniel
high King is a honorary title that deals with leadership/command and politics.


Montgomery also did not have any power over any nation.

If Varian was SAC this would be different. High King implies something else.
If Varian was SAC this would be different. High King implies something else.


For those asking about King Wrynn's role, "Supreme Allied Commander" sounds about right.
Coordinating the military. Figurehead/inspiration.
https://twitter.com/DaveKosak/status/260962040292720641

Is the position of "high king" like the supreme commander position of Lothar?
Yes. About army focus, not control.
https://twitter.com/ChrisMetzen/status/260159705844957184
And 5.1 still implied that Tyrande was fit for a warrior position while varian was fit for a king position.

They say one thing but show another.
And I'm, personally, believing that the above was backtracking and what we see in "A little patience" seems a lot less like military control.
02/18/2013 03:23 PMPosted by Melyria
And I'm, personally, believing that the above was backtracking and what we see in "A little patience" seems a lot less like military control.


It's absolutely not military control when Varian can order about another leader willy nilly.
02/18/2013 03:25 PMPosted by Ferlion
And I'm, personally, believing that the above was backtracking and what we see in "A little patience" seems a lot less like military control.


It's absolutely not military control when Varian can order about another leader willy nilly.


That's what I'm saying.
Yeah, I'm just pointing out how absurd it is to claim it's just military control in that situation.
"It violates the spirit of what an Alliance means." no it doesn't. when an alliance of nations fights a war they usually appoint a military leader. this is no different from when General Montgomery was given command of the Allied forces in WWII.

and you have to remember Varian was appointed high king, the other leaders of the alliance follow him because they choose to.


It violates the ideals of the Alliance in a very fundamental way. The Alliance was supposed to be an alliance. No one nation or leader ruling over the others. A High King violates that because it's a national leader that is in control. Putting just a military man in charge who is NOT a national leader, doesn't violate the spirit of the Alliance. If Blizzard wanted there to be humans in charge, they would have pissed off a lot less people if it had been someone from the SW military. Perhaps Admiral Jes-(something) or someone else that they could have built up and -not- killed off in Cata. The leader of the 7th Legion? He has more actual experience with multiple races than anyone else.

Montgomery, as others have pointed out, was just a military man. He wasn't the Prime minister of England or a member of the ruling party in England. He was a general in the British Army. Varian is the king of his nation and the High King gives him defacto control over the Alliance's military. There are signs that Blizzard fully intended him to be more like an Emperor than a SAC all over the game before they started backpedaling so fast when the idea of the High King got such negative press.

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