Y'shaarj Is Not Dead

Story Forum
The 'Prophecy of C'thun' is received by the player after completing the quest 'The Calling' in Silithus. Here is an excerpt from it:

In the time before time, when the world was still in its infancy, a battle between a Titan and a being of unimaginable evil and power raged on this very soil. The prophecy is unclear about whether or not the Titan was vanquished in this battle but it illustrates that a Titan fell. An Old God had also fallen - or so it was thought.

This states that one of the Titans had attempted to destroy C'thun, and had fallen in battle, just as C'thun had. Or so this is what the other Titans thought. C'thun had escaped and lay hidden underneath Silithus until he was ready to return. The Qiraj had not been that big of a threat until C'thun was about to emerge from his dormancy; just like the Sha...
The Sha (for the most part) had been subdued and were not longer a large threat to the Mantid, Pandaren, Mogu, etc. Once something had triggered the emergence of these foes (whether the scepter of shifting sands for the Silithid or the negative emotions brought by the Alliance and Horde for the Sha) the Old God followed. Thinking C'thun to be dead when he was sleeping may very well be the same case for Y'shaarj who was also thought to have been killed. If you will read a portion this passage you are told once becoming exalted with Klaxxi:

Great was the Old One, and terrible was His wrath. He consumed hope and begat despair; He inhaled courage and breathed fear.
When the usurpers came - the ones you call "Titans" - Y'Shaarj was destroyed.
His last terrible breath has haunted this land ever since, but the shadows he left behind are mere whispers of his former glory.
I tell you now, because you have earned this warning.
Your gods are not your gods, outsider.
If the Old Ones ever return, we mantid will once again stand by their side.
The wisest among you will do the same.

They believe their god to be destroyed when in reality, this could only be their perception. Completely destroying an Old God is no simple task, even for a Titan. The Sha now returning will possible reawaken him. Kil'ruk hinted to this when he spoke of "If the Old Ones ever return, we mantid will once again stand by their side." This opens up many possibilities, because unlike other Old God worshipers like the twilight cult, the Klaxxi seem quite sane. Are the Old Gods really evil? Are the Titans really the bad guys here? Will Y'shaarj return? I'll leave that to you.

EDIT: About the Old Gods trying to destroy everything: It's said that they want to end the world before the Hour of Twilight, which they believe to be a much worse event. Even Nozdormu, who will eventually become an Infinite Dragonflight and work for the Old Gods, has confirmed this.
The Old gods don't have a motive other then to escape their prisons at the moment it seems...

The burning legion wants to kill destroy all life in the cosmos

As for Y'sharrj not being dead? well Metzen told us the Three old gods that corrupted deathwing one of them being N'zoth (The old god that created the Naga) if their was a fourth I am sure he would have mentioned him....

I honestly would pefer Y'sharrj over an orc as the last boss.

I mean....

Kil'Jaden- a LT. of the Burning Legion.
Lich King- Leader of the scourge, and could destroy the whole of azeroth but was just toying with us?
Deathwing- Huge evil dragon that almost destroyed the world.(For some reason gave us mercy by not destroy our cities but hey let me destroy Darkshore and barrens everyone loves those place.)
Garrosh Hellscream- A warmongering orc.

Garrosh really isn't unique a lot of other orcs have been warmongers and look at all the end games before him it is actually a little disgraceful that he is our end game.
02/19/2013 03:34 PMPosted by Darmonic
The Old gods don't have a motive other then to escape their prisons at the moment it seems...

Why would people want to worship them then? I think there's something important about the Old Gods that Blizz hasn't told us yet.
02/19/2013 03:37 PMPosted by Aetherspirit
The Old gods don't have a motive other then to escape their prisons at the moment it seems...

Why would people want to worship them then? I think there's something important about the Old Gods that Blizz hasn't told us yet.


They are also known to control people or make you go insane so to say why people worship them... they are most likely 100% insane.
eh, it could be that after tens of thousands of years the mantid don't quite remember what it means to be slaves to the old gods.
02/19/2013 03:40 PMPosted by Darmonic
They are also known to control people or make you go insane so to say why people worship them... they are most likely 100% insane.


They had created Azeroth until the Titans came, created order, and locked up the Old Gods. Maybe they've gone nuts because they've been locked up underground for so long, because the Titans forced them into submission. That, and the Klaxxi who still honor and respect Y'shaarj don't seem very insane.
Thinking C'thun to be dead when he was sleeping may very well be the same case for Y'shaarj who was also thought to have been killed.


You might have a point if Y'shaarj being dead was something only told to by sources within the storyline, but it's not.
I think once all the Sha are destroyed/killed their souls reform into Y'shaarj.
02/19/2013 03:37 PMPosted by Aetherspirit
The Old gods don't have a motive other then to escape their prisons at the moment it seems...

Why would people want to worship them then? I think there's something important about the Old Gods that Blizz hasn't told us yet.


the old gods didn't just create azeroth... the arakkoa were trying to summon an old god, and the harbringer in tk's prison talked about how they were all over.

As for y'shaarj not being dead, that's false. That prophecy applies to C'thun, and was ingame lore. Y'shaarj proclaimed as dead came from outside... Not going to get into metaphysical arguments, but unless Metzren wants more retconning and less people to trust him and more people to doubt his compentency (whcih i doubt) you should treat y'shaarj being dead like a divine word. You can't question it, you can't work around it, it's simply true. There doesn't even need to be any ingame events to reference it.

As for the sha and y'shaarj, I thiink it's quite possible that y'shaarj left the sha energies as he died. I also think that when the horde and ally came, the sha began to feed off those energies and came out. While the sha ARE a product of the old god, that doesn't mean they're involved with anything with him. Likewise, liek you said it takes a lot of kill an old god, it takes much more to revive one.

02/19/2013 03:27 PMPosted by Aetherspirit
because unlike other Old God worshipers like the twilight cult, the Klaxxi seem quite sane.


It's not that well known how "sane" the followers are. At first, old gods were seen as pure chaos and uncaring of mortal races. So it would be very insane to worship what desn't care about you. However, old god forces HAVE been working with them quite frequently recently (esp the cataclysm). At first, twilight's hammer only communed with the elementals who were semi-reasonable (at least they would TALK). Now, however, we can see minions of the old god working together directly with mortal races. A great example of this being in ulduar and the old kingdom, we find twilight's hammer interacting with old god minions.
Sha was quite the poorly developed. First, they made Old Gods look like an insect, by just getting roflstomped instantly like that, then the Sha was portrayed as this TERRIBLE (*thunders in the background*) thing that made the Titans change their minds about killing them, after that, we see Pandaria. And what do we see? The most peaceful place ever... wut?!

There's also later, when the Wind-reaver tells you about the Old Gods, he says that this Sha is nothing close to what the Old Ones were capable.

It's totally nonsense. Despite the few deaths and manifestations which might happen from time to time, the Sha only seems to reward peaceful people while utterly punishing anyone that steps out of line.

They had created Azeroth until the Titans came, created order, and locked up the Old Gods. Maybe they've gone nuts because they've been locked up underground for so long, because the Titans forced them into submission. That, and the Klaxxi who still honor and respect Y'shaarj don't seem very insane.


To begin, gotta define what the hell this "insane" means. People use a lot this word to describe people they find cruel and disagree with their own views.

Secondly, Twilight's Hammer might've not been "insane". They might've been merely helping to free the Old Gods, by getting rid of some additional defenses from Azeroth, on this case all the Aspects. That would justify why they have lost with Deathwing at their side. That's the only real justification, really. Although, it's not that good, considering they would've been freed if they had won.

Last but not the least, Old Gods certainly aren't bound in utter destruction as they portrayed. Klaxxi, Nerubian, Qiraji. All of them lived under their rule, and their society wasn't been destroyed nor anything. Old Gods just have a different nature from Titans, who, btw, aren't really that nice, they were ready to stomp the whole planet because some corruption were left. Neither Old Gods nor their servants want to "erase" everything. They want to change the world as it is.
I sometimes wonder if the Prophecy of C'thun may have actually be referring to Y'shaarj - After all, why would the Titans build a facility around the remains of an Old God they believed dead (C'thun) but not one they had definitely killed? (Y'shaarj)
My Question is do Old gods have soul of their own? If so then if they die can't they turn there soul to a Sha beings like what Y'shaarj did. If so can the old gods still be alive in some way or form?
Blizzard themselves have outright stated that Y'shaarj is very very very dead!

You dare question the accuracy of the words stated by the ones who created the lore!?!
Sorry, he's as dead as a dead man can possibly be dead, which is very dead.

02/20/2013 10:35 PMPosted by Lkilled
My Question is do Old gods have soul of their own? If so then if they die can't they turn there soul to a Sha beings like what Y'shaarj did. If so can the old gods still be alive in some way or form?


Blizzard said that the Old god is dead as one can possibly be. The Sha was a curse that Y'shaarj laid on Pandaria before it died.
It's corpse can still be stolen by Garrosh(the greatest atrocity of all even in the eyes of the Twilight's Hammer) Fleshshaped back in proper shape and possessed by Garrosh using Spiritbinding.

Garrosh has a great interest in Mogu and what they have:Fleshshaping, Spiritbinding not to mention the implied(by 5.2) very very very dead Old God corpse they're gaurding.
Blizzard said he's "very, very, very dead". He's dead.

It changes what we thought we knew about Old Gods, but isn't that what OGs are all about? Being chaotic?
"very, very, very dead" Dosen't mean no corpse for Garrosh to use(since 5.2 implies the Mogu are supposed to be gaurding it there most certainlly is one).
I think OP may be right.

The last boss on 5.2 will be Ra-Den, a Titanic watcher entrusted to watch over Pandaria.

After Defeated he yells:

"Wait! I am... I am not your enemy. You are powerful, more powerful than he was, even... perhaps you are right... Perhaps there is still hope. But there is a yawning chasm of darkness beneath you mortals, vast, endless, and all consuming... I do not believe that you can correct this doomed course... But you have earned the right to try. Farewell."
According to Wowpedia.

And another source says that the "Seven Heads of Y'Shaarj" possibly became the Sha, as their creation story is known as The Seven Burdens of Shaohao, especially considering that "shadows" were left allegedly left behind by his demise. Kil'ruk's assertion that Y'Shaarj "begat despair" and "breathed fear" could also be references to the the Sha of Despair and Sha of Fear. Further, the pronunciation of his name "Yah Sha Raj" stresses the "sha" portion.

You can also see references to 7 in the "Puzzle Box of Yogg-Saron" where it whispers: "Have you had the dream again? A black goat with seven eyes that watches from the outside."
Before knowing Y'shaarj i tough it was speaking about the emerald nightmare, but it may be talking about the wakening, or rebirth of Y'shaarj.
Y'shaarj being "Very dead" is debatable since we all know Blizzard has a bad habbit of retconning their own lore to the point where they dont even understand it sometimes.
The Mantid are very much sane, yes.

Well - most of them.

Okay, some of them. The ones who aren't Sha-corrupted.

... Okay, fine, one of them wants to cut you open, one of them is a murderous psychopath who loves blood, and another will openly tell you how crazy he is and how fascinated he is with his own madness, but you know what I mean.

They are sane. They're even pretty awesome. They are also... very much evil.

They make no secret about it. They are an "evil race". Now, you could argue about what makes someone or something Evil - but when we're using Fantasy terms and discussing "Evil Creatures", they completely fit the bill.

Some of them are honorable, some of them are wise, and some of them are brilliant - but they are a very very evil race who are making use of you for their purposes.

Their civilization's purpose to repeatedly butcher Pandaren - and their own children - as part of their plan to grow stronger and stronger. That is their sane and normal mode of operation. Their entire culture revolves around killing to gain power, again and again and again. They aren't interested in more territory to help their people grow and prosper, they aren't interested in vital resources, they aren't even nursing an old but just grudge due to wrongs that were once done to them. Their motivations are nowhere near as greyish and human-like as all that.

It's literally about as Just Plain Evil as it comes. They exist in a downright 1984-esque state of Constant War with their closest neighbors simply because the repeat cycle of killing is beneficial to them. It's a cycle of non-stop butchery. Currently, the Cycle has been broken and they welcome help from the outside. Once it's done, they will go back to how things were before. You, personally, get a thank you - but the Horde/Alliance are not now allies of the Mantid - and might make tempting targets once the time comes for the natural Swarm.

Getting to know them in no way shape or form makes the Old Gods sympathetic. They and their servants are either Evil - or are decidedly amoral, above human morality, and think and hold views that we would call "Evil" if they were coming from a humanoid.

Either way, we don't want them in charge.

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