Deeply Flawed PvP Design

Battlegrounds
Prev 1 2 3 4 10 Next
I made no accusations. I said I was not confident that you understand it. This is true. Had you concisely stated the idea, that would be different. I also never accused you of lying about BG experiences. I merely pointed out that your combined recollections show such a high degree of skill that it is probable you were lying. I then said that technically, however, it's possible that you are that skilled.
In both cases I do not have to prove anything to you & yea you insinutating that I don't understand a term that I am using or questioning the validity of my BG experiences are accusations.

I will not discuss this further with you, because I am not interested in chasing you down a rabbit hole. If you want to discuss topics related to the OP's ideas great, if not we are done here.

02/20/2013 08:21 AMPosted by Kilchurn
I Think random bgs would become more competetive if there was more incentive to participate
I agree 100% but the OP's idea would have the exact opposite effect.
I really don't think you realize the full impact of the changes in 5.2 TC. In fact I don't think a lot of players do.

The new Conquest Cap system in a nutshell ensures that all players, regardless of whether you started in Week 10 or Week 1, will be on par with each other once they have made their cap for the week.

Of course this is before factoring in how ratings will affect (if they still will, I'm not sure) the weekly caps but even so I can barely fathom the difference being greater than 1 piece of gear between week 1 and week 10 or so.

This change was absolutely brilliant in every sense of the word. It effectively keeps players on par gear wise while at the same time preserving the factor for gear enthusiasts of always having a reason to continue PvPing every week. This is how it was meant to be and how it always should have been.

I just really hope this doesn't lead to players saying; "I joined in Week 10, I don't want to grind 20k Conquest (or w.e. the actual figure is)". There's a not so fine line between constructive criticism and just being a cry baby and that complaint firmly falls on the latter.
02/20/2013 08:59 AMPosted by Arcilles
I just really hope this doesn't lead to players saying; "I joined in Week 10, I don't want to grind 20k Conquest (or w.e. the actual figure is)". There's a not so fine line between constructive criticism and just being a cry baby and that complaint firmly falls on the latter.
I guarantee you (mark my words) that you will see many threads making the same exact complaint... that they started late in the season & that it is unfair that they have to earn the makeup conquest points while facing "full tyranically geared players that are using their gear as a crutch". Don't get me wrong I think the changes in 5.2 are a well thought out compromise between rewarding geared players who geared up vs. making the experience of lesser geared players more enjoyable, but I know how the whiners think.
02/20/2013 09:34 AMPosted by Kiaransali
but I know how the whiners think.


ie. They don't.
I just want to add my 2 cents.

I agree with the OP. It is silly that PvP isn't normalized. It would be easier to balance because it would take out the gear equation, and it would also make the game more SKILL based instead of gear based. I'm all for gear in raids, etc, but PvP is about skill, not about how long someone has grinded their PvP gear.

I used to be huge into PvP, but now I don't play as often. So I don't even bother since if I enter I'm just going to get WTFPWNED by some death knight n00b who doesn't even know death grip is a taunt -- all because he has spent the ridiculous amount of hours needed to grind out the gear. (Oh, and during that time he hated himself because he was getting WTFPWNED by the same type of people).

I don't understand why I have to suffer through PvP to get geared.

Edit: I just want to add, since transmog is available, there is no need for the grind. Why not make the rewards cosmetic? I personally really love the sPvP stuff GW2 has done. It's completely skill based and the visual rewards are well worth the effort.
Bwv Blizzard has given some pretty valid & convincing reasons why normalized gear would not only make BGs worse, but most players don't want it. Did you click the link earlier in the thread to see what Blizzard said on the issue? The "deeply flawed design" is the OP's suggestions.
I don't see a link. But regardless, the logic that people should suffer through the gear grind just to be competitive is flawed.

PvP is about skill progression, not gear. But then again, maybe I should just go to a game that has a better and more balanced PvP system.
I also want to add that what the players want and what is better for the game are usually two completely different things.

Edit:

Most people against normalization are just trying to find roundabout logic to keep their edge. It's pretty damn fun when you out-gear most of the BG so much that you can just farm the !@#$ out of them at graveyard, huh? Heaven forbid you give them equal footing, your skilllessness will show.
I don't see a link. But regardless, the logic that people should suffer through the gear grind just to be competitive is flawed.

PvP is about skill progression, not gear. But then again, maybe I should just go to a game that has a better and more balanced PvP system.


As I've stated in my previous post, the new 5.2 Conquest Cap system makes it so the only grind you'll have to "suffer" through to be on par with everyone else is a one week Conquest Cap.

If you can't even stomach that then I have to wonder how exactly you would have survived competitive PvP during Vanilla.
The link:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7923993742?page=1

02/20/2013 01:13 PMPosted by Bwv
PvP is about skill progression, not gear.
No offense but this borders on rhetoric. It's like a catchy political slogan that sounds great, but when you dig deeper it seems more like empty rhetoric. Yes conceptually speaking PvP should be about skill, but there is much more to the equation.

02/20/2013 01:15 PMPosted by Bwv
Most people against normalization are just trying to find roundabout logic to keep their edge
I could not disagree with you more. I am absolutely convinced it is a terrible idea... to suggest that I am against for some hidden reasons is borderline offensive.

02/20/2013 01:15 PMPosted by Bwv
I also want to add that what the players want and what is better for the game are usually two completely different things.
Now this we agree on, but for different reasons. A lot of the ideas presented by players may be well intended, but they absolutely crumble when you analyze them and apply some critical thinking. The OP's idea is a perfect example.
I also want to add that what the players want and what is better for the game are usually two completely different things.

Edit:

Most people against normalization are just trying to find roundabout logic to keep their edge. It's pretty damn fun when you out-gear most of the BG so much that you can just farm the !@#$ out of them at graveyard, huh? Heaven forbid you give them equal footing, your skilllessness will show.


I can't even believe this thread is still going.

Blizzard has done nothing but make it easier and easier for players to get geared, yet all everyone does it complain about having to gear up.

There is a reason why Blizzard will not normalize gear, which is because it will dramatically decrease the queuing population which has the potential to adversely effect queue times.

If you want to sit around in 30 minute queues, please keep suggesting Blizzard implement normalized gear.


If you want to sit around in 30 minute queues, please keep suggesting Blizzard implement normalized gear.


This is really untrue. I know tons of people who would PvP if they didn't have to sit at the spirit resser until they got enough gear to compete.

Edit:

But even so, let's just entertain the idea that this non-thing would happen. How to counter it? Cosmetic rewards, achievements, etc.
02/19/2013 04:03 PMPosted by Killdrix
Don't get me wrong. I PvP and have fun doing it - provided I have decent gear. Getting rolled as a fresh level cap is never fun. Which leads me to my point. WoW has the worst PvP system ever conceived for competitive play. Gear in BGs and arenas should be normalized so that way it plays no factor in a competition. Unless, of course, we don't want the 'best' to be determined by skill.


Clearly WoW PVP is meant to be competitive.


Sometime it is, yes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcuvNWX_5pQ - proof. 75,000$ is nothing to scoff at.
Speaking of tournaments. There is a reason blizzard has a separate server during the tournament stuff. There is a reason all of those character have access to any sort of gear. It's because it needs to be normalized and balanced. Just saying.


If you want to sit around in 30 minute queues, please keep suggesting Blizzard implement normalized gear.


This is really untrue. I know tons of people who would PvP if they didn't have to sit at the spirit resser until they got enough gear to compete.

Edit:

But even so, let's just entertain the idea that this non-thing would happen. How to counter it? Cosmetic rewards, achievements, etc.


Untrue? Are you out of your mind?

I can't even /facepalm hard enough at this.

30 minute queues will break this game from a PVP perspective....

But, it will be good for people who enjoy 5 mans/heroics since everyone will run them and exchange JP for HP since it will be WAYYYYYYY faster, and leave the BG's to the 4 people in the entire game who don't mind waiting 30 mins for a queue.
02/20/2013 01:32 PMPosted by Bwv
Speaking of tournaments. There is a reason blizzard has a separate server during the tournament stuff. There is a reason all of those character have access to any sort of gear. It's because it needs to be normalized and balanced. Just saying.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7909591267#5

Their stance on it.

And even in other games where normalization is present, classes are still disgustingly imbalanced.

Remember, gear based game. The only thing reasonable is to ease the process.
02/20/2013 01:30 PMPosted by Hemicorpse


Clearly WoW PVP is meant to be competitive.


Sometime it is, yes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcuvNWX_5pQ - proof. 75,000$ is nothing to scoff at.


Yes, it's so competitive that most major gaming tourneys have dropped WoW from their circuit forcing the players to run their own.

Thank you for proving my point.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum