The Arms of Pandaria: PVE Arms 5.4

Warrior
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03/04/2013 04:38 AMPosted by Horrorface
That's just picky. 1.4 is less than 1.5, so is 0.1.


You're still kind of missing the point. The goal is to have CS up as much as possible. By Clipping it a little bit in that less than 1.5 scenario you keep your Auto Attacks, Mastery Hits, as well as Colossus Smash (Our second hardest hitting ability) itself dealing full damage against your target as if it had no armor.

The momentary gain of one special doesn't out weigh the clipping CS.
This seems like a slight miscommunication. If less than 1.5s remains on CS debuff, you're on the last gcd you can use inside it. IF SD procs in time, it's best to use it while the previous CS debuff is still up, but only as the last attack.
03/03/2013 02:15 PMPosted by Curoar
Tier 4: Almost always Dragon Roar.


I wouldn't be so sure about that.....

edit: I can't explain why (well, I can...) but I get more single target DPS out of a properly executed bladestorm than dragon roar.
So its crit-haste-mastery right when the patch goes live? Wanna make sure before i go reforge.
03/04/2013 01:15 PMPosted by Necronom
Tier 4: Almost always Dragon Roar.


I wouldn't be so sure about that.....

edit: I can't explain why (well, I can...) but I get more single target DPS out of a properly executed bladestorm than dragon roar.


I have doubts on your claim. From what you make it sound like, you had some perfect world scenarios that somehow Bladestorm is critting for more damage (if it even crits), and you're doing aura-cancel Bladestorm at the right moment so you're just doing one Whirlwind per Bladestorm.

Compare that to Dragon Roar:

1) always a crit (no need to pray to the RNG Gods - which also means you are guaranteed extra damage when Skull Banner is up);

2) always penetrates armor, therefore you don't have to wait for CS to do extra damage with DR, and you don't have to waste a GCD while you're inside a CS window;

3) synchs well with Bloodbath, and is on a shorter CD than Bladestorm so you'll have more uptime.

Explain to us why Bladestorm is doing more damage for you, since you claim you can. :)
03/04/2013 08:15 PMPosted by Marston
So its crit-haste-mastery right when the patch goes live? Wanna make sure before i go reforge.


I wouldn't change reforging priority yet until I actually start getting a hold of new 5.2 gear. Honestly I'd sim myself so I get an accurate representation of my own stat weights, with the new 5.2 Arms changes into consideration.

Might wanna download a newer version of Simcraft too (if they come out with something that coincides with 5.2 release) while we're at it, though.
I thought that the execute nerf was 25% not 15%?
So its crit-haste-mastery right when the patch goes live? Wanna make sure before i go reforge.


I wouldn't change reforging priority yet until I actually start getting a hold of new 5.2 gear. Honestly I'd sim myself so I get an accurate representation of my own stat weights, with the new 5.2 Arms changes into consideration.

Might wanna download a newer version of Simcraft too (if they come out with something that coincides with 5.2 release) while we're at it, though.


Reason why i asked was because of a post i saw on mmochamp. It basically said that the person simmed their warrior with 495 ilvl and the stat weights came out with crit first and haste just barely above mastery. It was on the ptr obvious and im not sure when they did it but i assumed it was recently.


I wouldn't be so sure about that.....

edit: I can't explain why (well, I can...) but I get more single target DPS out of a properly executed bladestorm than dragon roar.


I have doubts on your claim. From what you make it sound like, you had some perfect world scenarios that somehow Bladestorm is critting for more damage (if it even crits), and you're doing aura-cancel Bladestorm at the right moment so you're just doing one Whirlwind per Bladestorm.

Compare that to Dragon Roar:

1) always a crit (no need to pray to the RNG Gods - which also means you are guaranteed extra damage when Skull Banner is up);

2) always penetrates armor, therefore you don't have to wait for CS to do extra damage with DR, and you don't have to waste a GCD while you're inside a CS window;

3) synchs well with Bloodbath, and is on a shorter CD than Bladestorm so you'll have more uptime.

Explain to us why Bladestorm is doing more damage for you, since you claim you can. :)


Without going into a wall of text, Im just going to say:
1) Simcraft uses DR incorrectly in the default action priority list.
2) Simcraft doesnt model the most efficient use of reck
3) Reck is a 3 min CD.
4) No opportunity cost to delaying OP's
5) Legendary meta


I have doubts on your claim. From what you make it sound like, you had some perfect world scenarios that somehow Bladestorm is critting for more damage (if it even crits), and you're doing aura-cancel Bladestorm at the right moment so you're just doing one Whirlwind per Bladestorm.

Compare that to Dragon Roar:

1) always a crit (no need to pray to the RNG Gods - which also means you are guaranteed extra damage when Skull Banner is up);

2) always penetrates armor, therefore you don't have to wait for CS to do extra damage with DR, and you don't have to waste a GCD while you're inside a CS window;

3) synchs well with Bloodbath, and is on a shorter CD than Bladestorm so you'll have more uptime.

Explain to us why Bladestorm is doing more damage for you, since you claim you can. :)


Without going into a wall of text, Im just going to say:
1) Simcraft uses DR incorrectly in the default action priority list.
2) Simcraft doesnt model the most efficient use of reck
3) Reck is a 3 min CD.
4) No opportunity cost to delaying OP's
5) Legendary meta


That's great and all, but I never used Simcraft in my argument as to why Dragon Roar is better than Bladestorm for single target. In fact, you simply don't have to. All you have to do is look at the damage done of each attack, and the amount of uptime you will have on your target.

You are ALSO wildly assuming that most people are using Dragon Roar or Recklessness incorrectly BECAUSE of Simcraft, lol. How I use Dragon Roar is INDEPENDENT of Simcraft, and I assure you, I get the most out of my Dragon Roars and Recklessness.

What do you say about:

1) Lower uptime of Bladestorm, because of its 1.5 min CD?
2) Lower CD of Dragon Roar (and therefore, higher uptime of Dragon Roar)?
3) The CD of Recklessness is 2.5 min with T14 4p, and yet, it hasn't been seen in any log or simulation that Bladestorm does better damage with T14 4p (shorter CD Reck) than Dragon Roar?
4) The fact that Dragon Roar always crits and penetrates armor, therefore you don't have to put DR inside a CS window?
5) The fact that the legendary meta gem has nothing to do Bladestorm damage?

From what I read, with the Capacitive Primal Diamond - you have a chance on hit to gain 1 charge, for a total of 5 charges, and at 5 charges it unleashes a nature damage attack. The proc per minute is dictated by the class/spec you're playing, and the real proc per minute is dictated by your HASTE.

Again, what does the legendary meta gem have anything to do with Bladestorm doing more damage than Dragon Roar?
No way Bladestorm is better than Dragon Roar except for encounters where you need big burst AOE every 90 seconds.
Bump
I’ve yet to actually see anyone use Vigilance in a PVE setting as a DPS.


Vigilance is the same thing as a pally's Hand of Sacrifice; it's a valuable CD (usually for a tank) to be used when intercepting a hit would kill you but 30% over time would be healable. I used it as a Dread Thrash external tank CD on heroic Sha progression.

But back to the current tier: I've been playing around with Arms again, hooray. I have questions about haste and about the ability priorities.

1. Are deep wounds ticks affected by haste? From what I understand, it's the damage spread out over 15sec, ticking every 3sec. Since it almost always is re-applied before it expires, I'm wondering if we can increase the number of ticks via haste? I'll go dig into my logs from last night to check, but I wanted to ask here too. If it is affected, what are the haste break points/plateaus?

2. From what I understand, OP is our second priority due to a) its low rage cost, b) its 1sec gcd, and c) it lowers the remaining cd on MS. However, it seems after MS-OP-OP, I'm at 1.4 sec remaining on MS cooldown, and so if I Slam I clip my next MS by .1 second. As a result, last night I felt I underused Slam, and perhaps overused HS as a rage dump. Is this just because of latency or am I missing something?

3. My opening burst was lower than as Fury. That's fine in general, but I'm looking at ways to increase. With all cds stacked, including bloodlust, wouldn't MS>Slam spam be better within the opening CS windows? Or still OPs to fit in more of them within the CS?

I'm off to check through logs, but if you've already done the work and have numbers, please share and save me time!
What's the consensus on slam vs overpower if you have more than 80 rage?

Slam hits are roughly the same as overpower crits so wouldn't it be better to dump your rage on slam above ~80 rage after MS and CS?

So for example

Below ~80 rage:

MS > CS > OP > Slam

Above ~80 rage:

MS > CS > Slam > OP
Came to ask exactly that Camirex. Hard to find a consensus yet but i have read that switching op for slam when you have alot of rage is the highest dps.

Also, is that sword a trash drop? Im curious since that and the polearm arent in the dungeon journal.
Came to ask exactly that Camirex. Hard to find a consensus yet but i have read that switching op for slam when you have alot of rage is the highest dps.

Also, is that sword a trash drop? Im curious since that and the polearm arent in the dungeon journal.


It dropped from the 4th boss. I think it's from a shared loot table.
Came to ask exactly that Camirex. Hard to find a consensus yet but i have read that switching op for slam when you have alot of rage is the highest dps.


The extra rage should generally be burned off with heroic strike, when you don't have time to fit in a Slam. Generally this happens when you can use a Talented Move like Impending Victory or Dragon Roar.

Remember to maximize your DPS you need to make sure you're pressing Mortal Strike and Overpower as often as possible. Prioritizing slam over these abilities is not a good idea.
so elemental force > windsong if i can't get dancing steel?

edit: nice guide btw, sticky requested.
Is Glyph of Unending Rage worth it for arms anymore? Seems you don't ever come close to topping out your rage anymore with 5.2 arms rotation.
03/03/2013 02:13 PMPosted by Curoar
Aedilhild (Despite being a treacherous Fury Warrior, your help was invaluable during the PTR)

Thanks! I trace my roots to Arms, but like Vulgrym, I run Fury for the funsies.

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