Fistweaving still worth it?

Monk
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After the nerf to Serpent's Zeal (reduced from 50% healing to 25% of autoattack dmg), and increased mana cost of Jab (Yes, Blackout Kick restores 4% mana, but I find that Jabbing enough times to get the Chi to use it costs more Mana than the 4% restored)

Is it still worth it? Please debate. I'm interested to hear other people's reasoning. Thanks.
It's better than it ever was. Loved it tonight.
Can you explain why, or was it just that it felt better?
I can point out some of it.

Eminence healing itself didn't really take a nerf, it just got restructured. which has a nice offside bonus of mistweavers can actually do some damage now; which is nice for soloing around the world.

you don't NEED to build chi as fast; because there are less things to spend chi on now!. Like normal healing. you should not be hitting a button to heal if a heal isn;t needed. that where jab is wasting your mana. TP & BK are wasting your chi.

Triage is now part of fistweaving and it's for the better.

with the Jab/bk mana issue; it's not SUPPOSED to Build Mana; It's supposed to offset the cost of the jabs spent to get the chi to BK. think of it as kind of a Spend 8, get 4 return. if it was free healing; what would be the point of having mana? we could be an energy based healer for that matter.
I just got done Fistweaving some 5mans just to test it out and it does feel a lot better.

If you manage Muscle Memory well, you end up using the same net amount of mana per Jab that you were in 5.1, except in addition the skills are beefed up like crazy.

The nerf to Serpent's Zeal is a straight nerf, though, but getting heals from autoattacks doesn't require skill or.. anything really, so I'm not really worried about it. If most of your healing was coming from that in 5.1, then that is a problem.

If you want to Blackout Kick, you have several options: Jab once for Muscle Memory of course, then use Expel Harm, or Renewing Mists, or spec into Power Strikes, or wait until you have 5 stacks of the Surging Mists buff, or at the very very very least, try channeling Soothing Mists to see if you'll get a Chi.

Basically, for Fistweaving, you will use Jab -> TP -> Jab -> TP most of the time. This heals a lot of moderate damage. If you need to BoK, see above. You just need to be very careful about how you use Jab now, you can't just sit around and spam it like Windwalkers anymore.
What should be my "priority list" now?

I'm 89, and I tried healing in Shadow-pan tonight and it was rough - constantly OOM and having to 'mix it up' to squeeze out a heal somewhere.

The night before, two runs of Mogu'shan at near max mana the whole time.

Trying to figure out what works and what doesn't - and not really sure either way.

EDIT: Looks like I should shift into power strikes, was on ascension. But building chi faster and with less resources sounds like it'll be a lot more important now. In past to get a surge of Chi I could just spam a few things, mana was endless.

And I wasn't putting priority on Tiger Palm.
What I noticed was that it was very easy to "weave" (hehe) fistweaving into my normal healing rotation. Renewing Mist, Expel Harm and Thunder Focus Tea should continue to be used on cooldown for maximum benefit. This allows you to only use Tiger Palm when it's necessary to refresh it, and BoK to consume chi when a large amount of raid healing is not required (Or sometimes even when it is, depending on the number of targets).

Pre 5.2, Fistweaving was meant to be used when the healing required was very low-intensity. This new build allows for a little bit more versatility and more powerful melee healing.
I didn't really get a chance to try it in the raid tonight. My router decided to pick patch day to nearly die, so I ended up sitting after the second boss. I did try it in some 5 mans after the raid though. Bearing in mind this is with the luck of the draw buff, I pulled anywhere from 100-135k dps on most of the boss fights (it varied a bit depending on if Xuen was up from the last boss or not and luck with crits). So... that's kind of fun I guess?

Pre 5.2, Fistweaving was meant to be used when the healing required was very low-intensity. This new build allows for a little bit more versatility and more powerful melee healing.


Huh? Fistweaving was used when you needed to get the most hps you could before. It's pretty much opposite now. It's impossible to fistweave and use uplift efficiently.

I don't know, it feels really clunky to me. You really screw yourself over if you accidently jab twice in a row, which is surprisingly easy to mess up if you're not used to it. If there are 3 targets for spinning crane kick you pretty much have infinite mana though which is amusing.

I guess you could fistweave until aoe damage went out then switch to soothing for uplift spams. That's probably what I'm going to end up doing. Again, very clunky. Maybe I'm a sadist but I kind of enjoy having to figure out a new way to heal every few months, hah.
Lol very clunky? Disc dps and paladin holy dps are gutted and Blizzard lets another healer pull competitive dps now. No healer should be doing over 20-30k dps tops and for monks to be claiming to pull now 100k dps as a healer is very wrong on so many levels.
Lol very clunky? Disc dps and paladin holy dps are gutted and Blizzard lets another healer pull competitive dps now. No healer should be doing over 20-30k dps tops and for monks to be claiming to pull now 100k dps as a healer is very wrong on so many levels.

Atonement says hi.

Also, 100k? Methinks you're slightly (read: immensely) exaggerating there, dude.
100k dps?! Hell yeah let's get 10 fistweavers together and win all the raids.
It does not provide major healing but you could 5 man heal with fistweaving. We did the alliance boss for somoenes Test of Valor quest as 8 people and i was only healer just fistweaving.
It's meant to be moderate healing with moderate dps.
I pulled 60k DPS in ToT last night fistweaving adds during Horridon
Lol very clunky? Disc dps and paladin holy dps are gutted and Blizzard lets another healer pull competitive dps now. No healer should be doing over 20-30k dps tops and for monks to be claiming to pull now 100k dps as a healer is very wrong on so many levels.


100K on a non-gimmick fight? No way.
03/06/2013 06:59 AMPosted by Fistlobster
Lol very clunky? Disc dps and paladin holy dps are gutted and Blizzard lets another healer pull competitive dps now. No healer should be doing over 20-30k dps tops and for monks to be claiming to pull now 100k dps as a healer is very wrong on so many levels.

Atonement says hi.

Also, 100k? Methinks you're slightly (read: immensely) exaggerating there, dude.


I think he's refering to big trash pulls with lots of adds. Logically no one can actually think a MW monk can sustain 100K dps an entire dungeon or raid.
I wouldn't expect 100K over an entire dungeon. Looking at Skada for one of the instances I did last night, I averaged 70k for the entire thing. I'm not able to see all the boss segments due to trash, but just looking at the last one (Taran Zhu in Shado-Pan) I have 80K dps with a mere 10% crit rate on tiger palm (3 out of 27). In a group I should have a bit over 25% crit, so poor luck there. The other dps was low enough too that I had to meditate near the end of the fight. Prior to hitting meditate I was >90K.
Can you explain why, or was it just that it felt better?


I' be happy to.

Most importantly, it actually feels like a contribution now. Previously, in a good group you'd average something like 2-5% of the total damage, which was seriously insignificant. Now, it's almost triple that (or more in AOE fights), and it just feels good.

The opportunity cost of fistweaving is obvious: you're using more mana, you're doing less healing, and you're in a more dangerous position (melee). I'm immensely pleased that the returns (e.g. - damage output) now feel substantial.

It's now much easier to flow into and out of fistweaving. Only needing a single stack of Serpent's Zeal instead of two makes it tremendously easier jump in and out of melee as the encounter dictates. It used to take 5 Chi and several GCDs to get your infrastructure in place. By the time you got done setting that up, sometimes the rate of incoming damage would have changed and you couldn't keep up with crappy fistweaving heals, so you'd just have to switch back. Now the whole thing has less setup time, which just makes all your decision making feel more dynamic.

The previous mechanics encouraged you to always build chi with melee, but never dump chi with melee. That created a pretty disjointed feel where ideal play was never ranged healing or punch/kicking... only jab-jab-uplift. In any encounter where jab-jab-uplift wasn't an option, it felt like you were wasting potential. I'm not going to miss it.

On that same note: Serpent's Zeal. It's now a smaller percentage of our total healing output, but that's not a bad thing. You're punished less in an encounter where it's not viable to melee, and instead more of our healing comes from our active abilities. In a game where boss mechanics usually demand mobility, I think that's a pure buff, honestly. (I also want to emphasize that while Serpent's Zeal healing is down, our overall Fistweaving healing is way, way up)

Lastly, AOE. I haven't had much time to crunch numbers here, but it actually seems like this is a strength. I use Chi Torpedo & Chi Burst, both of which are a lot of damage and healing for ZERO resources. Add in Blackout Kick & Spinning Crane Kick (not to mention all our non-melee aoe healing tools), and you just have a ton of options. I found myself rolling with: Jab -> Blackout Kick -> Spinning Crane Kick -> Repeat. (I haven't had time yet to figure out how many targets need to be nearby for Spinning Crane Kick to be better than a Muscle Memory Blackout Kick).

I had zero mana problems yesterday, but I was wearing my challenge mode gear which stacks extreme amount of spirit at the cost of other stats and I wasn't doing particularly hard content. Also, as previously mentioned, I get quite a bit of mileage out of Chi Burst and Torpedo. We'll see how mana management pans out later in the week, but I never cast a jab without consuming the muscle memory, so I don't anticipate it being any different than it was last patch.

All my comments are in the context of 5 or 10 man content. I know that 25 man stuff is a different ballgame, and I still question the value of a Mistweaver in those encounters, but that's a topic for a different thread. This one is about Fistweaving, which I think is better than it's ever been.

I know that was long, but you asked for it :)
It does not provide major healing but you could 5 man heal with fistweaving


You coul heal 5-mans spamming SCK for that matter. 5-man is not a good measure for a healing tool. Fistweaving is a very defficient healing tool right now. Just because you pulll big dps numbers it doesn't mean it's good: MW is a healer spec, and fistweaving should be a viable healing tool, just as atonement is. For instance I healed Jin'Rokh last night on my disc priest by using only atonement and SS / PW:B for lightning storms. Go ahead and try that with fistweaving.

Lastly, AOE. I haven't had much time to crunch numbers here, but it actually seems like this is a strength.


Yup. Fistweaving is the shadow priest of the healing tools. Great for clearing trash, sucks for actual boss fights.
Yup. Fistweaving is the shadow priest of the healing tools. Great for clearing trash, sucks for actual boss fights.


I don't necessarily disagree with your premise. I suspect that you're speaking specifically about 25 man content, I certainly have concerns about Mistweavers when compared to the contributions of the other healing classes.

Nonetheless, I think fistweaving saw significant improvement in this last patch. The niche it fills is better defined, and although there's questions about whether or not that niche is useful, I think the definition is important. Now that the healpunching side of things has been pretty solidly split out from channelled healing, it's much easier for future changes and or buffs. I can understand that it was really hard to balance the class for large raids while jabjabuplift was running rampant.

So while there's definitely concerns about our role in 25-man raiding, I think we can still agree that this patch was a solid step forward.

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