Mothers in Azeroth

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You guys should go watch some more Disney movies. Being a bit down on motherhood is a time-honored fantasy tradition. Snow White? Cinderella? Finding Nemo? Bambi? (Spoilers, sorry.) I could keep going all day, and the Grimm fairy tales most of these movies are based on are even worse. The essential point is that stories of this nature are about adventure, and the job of a parent is to prevent kids from having adventures as much as possible. Therefore, to permit any decent adventure, first you have to get the parents out of the way, or just pretend they never existed in the first place. Otherwise they are constantly obstructing the plot development, by saying things like "hey that's dangerous, you could get hurt," or "I don't like the influence these troublemakers are having on you," or "Where did you get the money for that sword, anyway?"

Go through all your classic games that have any kind of story or plot, and check how many of them start, in the very first chapter (or sometimes in the pre-gameplay prologue!), with the hero's single parent being killed in some horrible way. Bonus points if his entire home village is blotted from the map, preferably by a nuclear explosion or lasers from orbit. It gives said hero a convenient emotional investment in doing away with the villain, and at the same time frees him of any inconvenient filial obligations. (The big exception, of course, being Earthbound, in which your 6-year-old hero has to call his mom and dad from time to time or he gets depressed, with in-game penalties! Also, they occasionally mail him care packages.) Single fathers being more common than single mothers is just a cultural prejudice thing: mothers are seen as being more protective, while fathers are supposedly a bit more willing to let their kids out to "become men."
03/21/2013 01:51 PMPosted by Nethaera
Well look at most romances and relationships in WoW... whoever is writing these stories much have horrible luck/experience with girls.


I think you're assuming a bit much. Authors don't just simply write based on their own experiences, but based on the premise of "what if". I can't speak to what specific reasons the writers have in this regard, but I can say from my viewpoint that Azeroth is not a very forgiving or peaceful world. It's been in one upheaval after another and unfortunately, that means that things don't always turn out for the best. A writer's job is to make you feel something if they can. A spot of empathy or anger or sadness, joy, love, or triumph. Many stories throughout time (fables/fairy tales etc.) revolve around the loss of one parent or another though generally, it's in regard to the loss of a mother. It resonates with people and it fits with the harsh realities that may have been a part of society. It also serves as a catalyst very often for change within the character in question and shapes their very personality or character flaws.

Keep in mind as well that we have a team of people who work on quest and story with a variety of experiences to bring to the table.

It's also worth noting that fathers have died too. Thrall lost both of his parents. Not just his mother.


I think that's true to some extent, but I believe there is still room for a little improvement going forward. Especially in cases where the characters themselves are there, they just need to be more visible.

One small change that could be made with very little development time would be to put Queen Mia Greymane (as well as Princess Tess Greymane) in game outside the Worgen starting zone.

Mia could be in Stormwind with her husband. Either right next to him or elsewhere in the Keep.

I'd probably put Tess in the Howling Oak. With Liam's death she is the sole heir to Gilneas, so it would be logical for her to be in an administrative role to prepare her for the throne, and the Howling Oak is as good as place as any.
Losing parents and particularly mothers is a common trope in fiction. Nearly every disney movie or comic book hero has lost their parents or mother. Often these losses define the motivations to become heroes or champion their cause.
"To avoid future rolls on the insanity tables, start your character with their family already dead."

Advice given to me the first time I rolled up a RPG character. I guess other people got the same advice as well.
But not one has lost their father and has had their mother raise them. Moira's child will be the first, if he ever gets developed in the Warcraft story line. He is just a baby right now, and WoW won't be around for him to go from baby to adult.


So, what's Vareesa then? she has twin children she is raising herself.
03/21/2013 02:49 PMPosted by Ximothy
But not one has lost their father and has had their mother raise them. Moira's child will be the first, if he ever gets developed in the Warcraft story line. He is just a baby right now, and WoW won't be around for him to go from baby to adult.


So, what's Vareesa then? she has twin children she is raising herself.

Recently widowed and we've never seen her kids in game. They've been mentioned in two books. If I hadn't read those books I wouldn't have even known she was married to Rhonin, let alone had kids with him.
When was the last time we actually got a blue post in here that wasn't selling a book or promoting a short story?
When was the last time we actually got a blue post in here that wasn't selling a book or promoting a short story?


Nethaera stopped in a few weeks ago to discuss CDev twitters, but that was the first one in far, far too long.
When was the last time we actually got a blue post in here that wasn't selling a book or promoting a short story?


These forums are so insanely toxic I'm not surprised. I mean, people even post constantly that Blizz employees are biased so any lore they write is invalid....which is insane.
I must admit that the dead mother is a trope we see often employed in fantasy, even in World of Warcraft. Some other characters that came to mind as subverting this are overlooked by the writers: the Greymane ladies, the hinted possibility of Calia Menethil being alive, Vereesa's status as a mother and Rhonin's widow. There are examples that could be emphasized (I am happy to see Vereesa get more screen time in 5.2), but it seems at times that the sense of family in game is left exclusively to Varian and Anduin's relationship.
Just to provide some balanced perspective, here are the fathers and husbands that have been casualties of war:

Arthas committed patricide and killed his father Terenas Menethil.
Cairne Bloodhoof was murdered which left his son Baine to deal with fallout and pick up the pieces.
Anduin didn't just lose his mother. He had to suffer through a period in which his father was lost to him and then his surrogate father ended up becoming the Lich King.
Thrall didn't just lose his mother, he lost his father too and his adoptive father wasn't a picture of kindness. He enslaved him and tried to kill him. That will cause some father issues if nothing else will.
Garrosh was abandoned and his father wasn't exactly around to raise him, though he was an influence on him. I'm sure you recall Grom Hellscream.
Leyara lost her daughter and her husband was murdered as well. Her relationship with her father-in-law didn't exactly result in warm and fuzzy quality time together either unfortunately.
Vereesa (Windrunner) is raising twins alone now that her husband Rhonin was killed in Theramore. She's also dealing with a few sister issues.
Moira (Thaurissan) is dealing with the death of her husband and her father turning to diamond, while being a part of a new leadership.She's dealing with something many working mothers are familiar with in balancing her dedication to her son and the council I'm sure.
Suna Silentstrike is another one who has lost her husband to tragedy.

War is ugly and dirty and the stories we want to tell reflect that. It affects everyone in one way or another. We can't put every story on the forefront, but we can hope that the stories that are available convey the struggles that plague the denizens.
Does Suna Silentstrike even count? She died about 20 minutes after her husband Lin Silentstrike.
Jesus can we get a box of Kleenex in here?
Cairne Bloodhoof was murdered which left his son Baine to deal with fallout and pick up the pieces.


Good thing you didn't accuse Garrosh of murdering him.

Garrosh was abandoned and his father wasn't exactly around to raise him, though he was an influence on him. I'm sure you recall Grom Hellscream.


Wait, he was abandoned by his mother? That's pretty hardcore.

Leyara lost her daughter and her husband was murdered as well. Her relationship with her father-in-law didn't exactly result in warm and fuzzy quality time together either unfortunately.


Considering that she had lost everything (and that her father-in-law was recently imprisoned much like Illidan for the rest of his days), I can't blame her for the path that she took, even if it was wrong to do so.

Vereesa (Windrunner) is raising twins alone now that her husband Rhonin was killed in Theramore. She's also dealing with a few sister issues.


Actually I'm pretty sure that she is currently assisting Jaina at the Isle of Thunder. Her children (how old are they by the way) are currently home alone.

Moira (Thaurissan) is dealing with the death of her husband and her father turning to diamond, while being a part of a new leadership.She's dealing with something many working mothers are familiar with in balancing her dedication to her son and the council I'm sure.


Hahaha, that's cute, but its wrong.

I don't think she really cares that her father is diamond, it just means that she is closer to being the legitimate heir of Ironforge. I'm also not so sure just how 'dedicated' she is to the council.

Moira cares only about her son, everyone else (I'm imagining even the Alliance) can rot as soon as they lose their usefullness.

Vereesa (Windrunner) is raising twins alone now that her husband Rhonin was killed in Theramore. She's also dealing with a few sister issues.


Actually I'm pretty sure that she is currently assisting Jaina at the Isle of Thunder. Her children (how old are they by the way) are currently home alone.


She has been raising them though, and after this short excursion to the Isle of Thunder is done (4-5 weeks in game) she will go back to them.


Actually I'm pretty sure that she is currently assisting Jaina at the Isle of Thunder. Her children (how old are they by the way) are currently home alone.


I doubt they're at home alone. ;)

Hahaha, that's cute, but its wrong.

I don't think she really cares that her father is diamond, it just means that she is closer to being the legitimate heir of Ironforge. I'm also not so sure just how 'dedicated' she is to the council.

Moira cares only about her son, everyone else (I'm imagining even the Alliance) can rot as soon as they lose their usefullness.


It's not wrong and I'm sure she does care that her father is a diamond. Currently, she has no path at all to reconciliation with her father if she wants one. She has to be dedicated to the council because if they decide it doesn't work, what happens to her son? You agree she cares about him and his future, so (to me) it seems in her and his best interest to make it genuinely work. But, it is Azeroth so who knows.

Also, since when does it not count for a wife to lose her husband? That's a bit cold.
03/21/2013 04:26 PMPosted by Nethaera
I doubt they're at home alone. ;)


Auntie Sylvannas isn't allowed in Dalaran, Neth :O

It's not wrong and I'm sure she does care that her father is a diamond. Currently, she has no path at all to reconciliation with her father if she wants one. She has to be dedicated to the council because if they decide it doesn't work, what happens to her son? You agree she cares about him and his future, so (to me) it seems in her and his best interest to make it genuinely work. But, it is Azeroth so who knows.


I have to disagree, my well-lit associate :)

Considering that the loss of her husband was her father's fault (he sent you in to recover her afterall) and under the pretense that his daughter was mind controlled, it isn't really a stretch to assume that she goes down to her father's diamond corpse with her son just to show him his grand father, the man whose hatred for the dark irons cost him the knowledge of knowing his father.

As for the matter of the council, considering just how much trouble she went through to sabotage the binding of the 3 hammers in the short story, I feel that she will only use the council (and the alliance) only until it no longer is able to serve her or her sons survival. She'll only do as much as she has to just to preserve that.

Also, since when does it not count for a wife to lose her husband? That's a bit cold.


It's not that I'm trying to be cold, but the thread is about mothers. Though I guess I will concede this one and redact my former statement. Suna afterall was a victim of love.
Also, since when does it not count for a wife to lose her husband? That's a bit cold.

Because they died pretty close together. She had about 20 minutes of crazy sha rage before I stabbed her to death.
Also, since when does it not count for a wife to lose her husband? That's a bit cold.


People and their crazy standards for what does and doesn't count, I would presume.
Wait, he was abandoned by his mother? That's pretty hardcore


You forget that Garrosh had the orcish equivalent of Smallpox, and was abandoned with a bunch of other sick orcs who didn't have a perfect bill of health. It was pretty much par for the course in Orcish culture to abandon the weak. It also may explain Garrosh's obsession with strength. This dude goes about yelling and hollering about how "only the strongest may dwell in Orgrimmar" when he himself was considered unfit to stand with his own people during the days of the Old Horde.

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