Ret Pally DPS help

Paladin
hmm.. who do I trust in this thread..

The paladin with heroic experience, or the paladins who have yet to clear normal modes...

That's a tough call.

Having "heroic experience" doesn't mean the person knows what they're talking about. Even assuming they weren't carried, they might not necessarily be playing very well.

People who don't do heroic raids (or even raid at all) can still care more about optimizing their play than heroic raiders.
hmm.. who do I trust in this thread..

The paladin with heroic experience, or the paladins who have yet to clear normal modes...

That's a tough call.


How about you do the smart thing and corroborate the evidence given? Take each person's advice and search for other sources that give similar - or differing - information and find what works best.

Though, since "Mr. Heroic Raid Experience" hasn't actually provided any evidence beyond "ur all turble nd iz da bomm" to support his notion, I think I know which bet's the safest.
hmm.. who do I trust in this thread..

The paladin with heroic experience, or the paladins who have yet to clear normal modes...

That's a tough call.


Yeah you go ahead and follow Mr. Heroics advice then and see how well that works out for ya.

Simple, basic research will show that he's wrong but most people can't even manage the small amount of effort that takes.

Heroic raiding experience doesn't mean jack, you can be someone with no raiding experience and still a better individual player then someone who got carried through content on the backs of people who actually know what they're doing.
hmm.. who do I trust in this thread..

The paladin with heroic experience, or the paladins who have yet to clear normal modes...

That's a tough call.


SOOO because people, do not do hero's they have no idea about there class? Valid point.... Well am a go and throw my hat with Grog's group.. Reason, even though i didn't take his advise as the gospel, it still helped me. In a raid run i have no problem matching or surpassing people who have better ilvl, but have not optimized... or have done so poorly.
I've trusted the opinions of people like Caden and Grog (and others) since I rolled this paladin. People who actually commit their own personal time to do the research, crunch the numbers, and care enough to share their findings are substantially more trustworthy.

Raid experience means nothing half the time. I've known many guilds now and in the past that carry their substandard Ret paladin simply because they've been in the guild forever and they're friends. So this not so great player has a few heroic kills under his/her belt, but that doesn't mean a thing.

I'm not well known in the paladin community but I chime in from time to time. I used to be a heroic raider myself, using information from people like Caden, Grog, Lobster, et al. Back in Cata and I was ranked on nearly every fight (I even had the #1 world rank for almost 2 weeks on ultraxion for all DPS before the Gurth/Ret nerf).

Now I didn't say that to stroke my own epeen, but to make a point. Look at my raid progress now... I've done next to nothing this entire expansion, but it doesn't mean I and others like me don't know what we are talking about.

I know I essentially just regurgitated what was already said but I felt I needed to weigh in with my own experiences and stress the importance of questioning your sources, because it has been a big part of my success and as well as many others. I owe my success to the theorycrafters and number crunchers in our community here, so this is also a <3 post for them.

Then again, I don't raid, so I guess this post should just be looked over :)
Having "heroic experience" doesn't mean the person knows what they're talking about. Even assuming they weren't carried, they might not necessarily be playing very well.

People who don't do heroic raids (or even raid at all) can still care more about optimizing their play than heroic raiders.


Sorry, I meant heroic experience AND several top DPS parses as Retribution. But you guys are right, what does someone who has some of the top DPS records in ToT know about DPS?
But you guys are right


Thanks I know we are.

what does someone who has some of the top DPS records in ToT know about DPS?


Not very much at all evidently, it doesn't matter if he was the best player in the world by numbers, the advice he gave was still fundamentally wrong.

Again bud no one is stopping you, by all means do follow in his footsteps. Just don't drag other people down with you.

Then again, I don't raid, so I guess this post should just be looked over :)


OMG!

*totally ignores post*

:P
what does someone who has some of the top DPS records in ToT know about DPS?


How to use his coins to get an amazing weapon the first week the raid is open and, by doing so, blow everyone else out of the water? I mean, seriously, it is far too early for parses to mean much beyond certain people got lucky their first week.

this is also a <3 post for them.


Keepin' the faith, bro.
For the love of god do not use clcret. Any self respecting ret will not use it.
For the love of god do not use clcret. Any self respecting ret will not use it.


It's fine as a learning device or an Inq timer, but, like any tool, it should only be used correctly and intelligently.
Yes Clcret is a crutch I personally don't use addons that play the game for you. And as for proof goes. I spend hours crunching and theorycrafting on dummies on gearing etc. The only physical proof I can give is simming. Check your sims with each of the choices and find whats best for you. He asked for advice and I have tried every single gemming and rotational scenario. We are talking hours of testing with each to get around the RNG that could show skewed numbers.
(Make sure your simcraft is updated to the newest version for the correct information)

The Ret paladin class is what I have been doing for 8 years. Every tier my goal is the same make sure I'm doing everything I can to maximize the highest output possible. In previous tiers I have had multiple top 10 parses, This tier Im behind the gear curv compared to most top level rets. A lot of guides out there are wrong. I'm not saying there guides are not an increase. But its not optimal. The only thing I have ignorance of as of right now is 2 set and 4 set from throne of thunder. As I have not physically ran the numbers nor spent the hours testing the set pieces.
03/18/2013 07:21 PMPosted by Capérnaum
A lot of guides out there are wrong.


Prove it. Don't just say it and expect anyone to take your word for it. Prove it. I've spent hours on dummies, and in sims, changing gear setups, tweaking rotations, too; everything I've done corroborates these sources that you claim are not optimal.
03/18/2013 09:21 PMPosted by Grôgnárd
Prove it.


Indeed.

If you are correct Cape then show us proof. Show us your math, your tests, your proof that the other theorycrafting sources are incorrect.

Otherwise you're just blowing so much smoke and expecting people to take it at face value, which sadly some people will do.

03/18/2013 07:21 PMPosted by Capérnaum
Yes Clcret is a crutch I personally don't use addons that play the game for you.


Of course it's a crutch if you rely on it like gospel, I suppose you're going to tell me you don't use DBM next because it's a "crutch"?

CLCRet is useful for new players who are inexperienced, it will help them learn. After that it's a handy Inquisition timer tracker if you don't use another addon that already does that for you.

Nothing wrong with it as long as you don't try and let it play the game for you, and your results won't be stellar if you do.

As with any such addon of this type you have to be able to make your own decisions and decide when and when not to follow the addon's suggestion.
Reminds me of that guy that was telling me to open with 5 HoP for Inquisition cause it was better AND that EJ and all the theorycrafters were wrong, because 'common sense'.
I think anyone is helping @Firoson anymore...
I don't use ClCRet OR DBM, sooo yea........Do you smell that? I smell butter, LOBSTER WHERE ART THOU! Drop some knowledge onto us...and maybe some crab legs!

Also for the record, I cannot stand that caper guy. He smells like rotten eggs.

Yes Clcret is a crutch I personally don't use addons that play the game for you.


Of course it's a crutch if you rely on it like gospel, I suppose you're going to tell me you don't use DBM next because it's a "crutch"?

CLCRet is useful for new players who are inexperienced, it will help them learn. After that it's a handy Inquisition timer tracker if you don't use another addon that already does that for you.

Nothing wrong with it as long as you don't try and let it play the game for you, and your results won't be stellar if you do.

As with any such addon of this type you have to be able to make your own decisions and decide when and when not to follow the addon's suggestion.


I'm glad somebody understood why I suggested the addon to somebody who didn't understand the rotation. It's the same as any addon. Once you're in the groove and understand the basics of a rotation..or really anything..you can expand beyond it.

I figured that was pretty clear.
But you guys are right, what does someone who has some of the top DPS records in ToT know about DPS?


Considering there are so few ToT samples being that its only been out for 3 weeks, being Top isnt all that much at the moment.
Humm nod nod the think tank be strong with this thread.
What's with all the hate with CLCret? It's one hell of an ability cooldown watcher so you don't have to look at the bottom of your screen to see what's going to come off CD next. Of course, after a while, you'll develop muscle memory to the "correct" rotation, based on Holy Power, and procs but nonetheless people who say it's a "crutch" are most likely not playing their class to the fullest. (Keep in mind of most likely, doesn't mean absolutely, before anyone makes conclusions). Also...

hmm.. who do I trust in this thread..

The paladin with heroic experience, or the paladins who have yet to clear normal modes...

That's a tough call.


I'm surprised people took this comment seriously.../trolled

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