thoughts on rewards for 2200

Arenas
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To those who are concerned/excited about this gap in equipment, I have one solution: go play a game that gives players an even footing, and where gear doesn't determine a win/lose for you. Some good examples are, the Call of Duty game, Battlefield games, DOTA game, RTS games, etc.

There are many games out there that have no equipment gap issues in PvP, which leads to some players whom are just better than others, and this will show. So, stop complaining Nancy--and if you really love PvP--go play a game more designed around it.


That's a really good idea. Then they could just delete the forums. If everyone who wanted to offer feedback for an ever-changing game with an ever-changing player base just quit, these forums would have no purpose. Then we wouldn't have to read all this crap.

Nice.


Right, because if PvP, for you, is broken because of a gear gap, then play a game without gear. Simple as that.

Look, in the past expansion, the gear gap in this game between good and bad players (whether HP, CP, or 2200) was large enough to decided whether who won or not. Picture a match between all blues and all purps; there is a much higher chance for the purps to win simply because of gear. Now, I am not saying it's a guarantee, just that gear plays a larger portion in deciding victory in this game than most think.

On the other side, the skilled player versus the non-skilled player. The gear gap for a skilled person to beat a non-skilled player should be small, right? If you have a pro-player all in Contenders gear against a non-pro player in all Elite gear, who would win this? Most would place their bet on the crappy player with Elite gear; the skilled player might have a chance, but the gap just separates it far enough to almost be a no-contest.

Where it matters most is when someone who is in 2200 gear would easily face roll on someone with blues. Grant it, this doesn't happen very often, and shouldn't because the 2200 will stay in high arenas, go to RBGs, or some dailies for money. But what happens when he decided to help a friend with Arenas or Regular BGs to farm Honor? That Elite geared wearing player will faceroll most of the the other teams players. I have seen this happen more than enough first hand. Of course, some games were won because the facerolling player was doing nothing but killing instead of trying to capture the flag, but others, it felt like we couldn't leave the grave yard.

Also, i get the feeling from most of these posts that the posters don't care about the "ever-changing" aspect of this game or the importance of balancing. The only thing that they are concerned about is losing to classes they were once better than. I personally could care less about the equipment game--I've never cared. I am more about the team work and challenges found in PvP, and not the damn equipment.

Here is a question: what if there was a max requirement for players over 2200 to enter certain PvP games, such as lower ladder Arena matches and Random BGs?
Right, because if PvP, for you, is broken because of a gear gap, then play a game without gear. Simple as that.


You're basically saying that if the game isn't how I like it, I should quit. I imagine if I turned around and said, "if you don't like the new gear system, go play a game that has one you like," you wouldn't really agree with me.

The suggestion was useless. The forums are here for feedback and discussion. Telling people to quit if they don't like it defeats the whole point of having discussion at all.

It was inane, that's all I was getting at.

As for the rest of your post (not quoting because my posts in this thread have been long enough), unless I'm totally misinterpreting you, I don't think we disagree much. I think PvP should rely more heavily on skill than gear. I'm not saying gear shouldn't matter, because this is an MMO, and gear will always be a factor. That said, the gear gap should be as small as possible and I think the higher ratings gearing up faster serves that purpose well. Obviously there needs to be more rewards to encourage participation, but I don't think that really needs to come in the form of gear with better stats.

I understand people not liking the idea, but truth be told, it doesn't really diminish gameplay. It makes games a little more even, even if just a tiny bit. That piece of it shouldn't bother anyone.
You're basically saying that if the game isn't how I like it, I should quit. I imagine if I turned around and said, "if you don't like the new gear system, go play a game that has one you like," you wouldn't really agree with me.

Of course you shouldn't quit, and of course coming to the forums is a place for giving ideas for the Devs and other players. But this argument about 2200 gear for PvP is ridiculous. I find it a bit sad for the 2200 and under because they will rarely run into a 2200 Elite geared player, and if they did then they would not stand a chance even with the same gear. So why fight over the gear. But what about the 2200 and above? If they can beat the other players without the gear, then why fight over it? To me, it looks like some of these people are just sick of the game on a whole, or really are not playing for PvP reasons and more for, I don't know.

The suggestion was useless. The forums are here for feedback and discussion. Telling people to quit if they don't like it defeats the whole point of having discussion at all.

It was inane, that's all I was getting at.

I agree, what I said could be inane, but hear me out real fast. I think saying something like this would be bad for Blizz-business, but the point is, if your serious about PvPing, go play a game built from the ground up with PvP in mind, and I think those who are in the 2200 rating or higher really like PvP. This will guarantee a better overall playing experience. I mean, if I still had my Xbox, I would be playing CoD or Battlefield instead of WoW, but thanks to a renegade ex, I no longer have my Xbox :P

So, is it still a silly suggestion?

As for the rest of your post (not quoting because my posts in this thread have been long enough), unless I'm totally misinterpreting you, I don't think we disagree much. I think PvP should rely more heavily on skill than gear. I'm not saying gear shouldn't matter, because this is an MMO, and gear will always be a factor. That said, the gear gap should be as small as possible and I think the higher ratings gearing up faster serves that purpose well. Obviously there needs to be more rewards to encourage participation, but I don't think that really needs to come in the form of gear with better stats.

I understand people not liking the idea, but truth be told, it doesn't really diminish gameplay. It makes games a little more even, even if just a tiny bit. That piece of it shouldn't bother anyone.

I'd say for the most part that we are on the same page; my comment might have sparked something inside of you ;) But as I hope you can see, I don't mean to simply say 'quit, and play something else'.

I'm no bad-!@# at PvP, but I also don't consider myself a push over. But does that mean I deserve what a 2200 skilled player receives? I think not~! But to have gear that would lead to a direct determiner to winning, in a PvP setting, should be based more on player skill than simple gearing. I mean, gear me in all Purps and I will destroy most of those in Contenders Gear, and will most likely win to those in Blues. This, in my opinion, when it comes to PvP, is inane.

I am just sick of seeing 'good players' complaining about this. I mean, clearly, if they are good players, then what do they have to worry about? As for the bad players, the gap encourages for better learning your class. There are both Positives and Negatives to the gear gap.

Honestly, I'm torn XD

BTW, I think having more rewards for PvPing, and not being gear based, would be a great idea or addition.
I think PvP should rely more heavily on skill than gear. I'm not saying gear shouldn't matter, because this is an MMO, and gear will always be a factor.

Yes it should rely on skill and more skilled players should be rewarded by more than cosmetic garbage that can be considered completely useless by some people who don't like how it looks such as myself.

Why is it such a big deal that we ask you guys to earn it like we did and not ruin the game further by demanding hand outs and taking more away from the good players? Hasn't this game coddled you guys enough with the changes since wotlk?
03/21/2013 06:05 PMPosted by Wyndoor
I think PvP should rely more heavily on skill than gear. I'm not saying gear shouldn't matter, because this is an MMO, and gear will always be a factor.

Yes it should rely on skill and more skilled players should be rewarded by more than cosmetic garbage...

@Srion See, This is what I am talking about.

The players under 2200 are not asking for your 'Elite' gear. What they are asking for is a game balance through gear.

@Whyndoor Please explain to me why this gear is so important to you? And don't say 'because we earned it'. I want to know real game mechanics and theories of why keeping this kind of gear in the game is so important? Because, as I see, it only widens the gap between good and bad players...

I am just sick of seeing 'good players' complaining about this. I mean, clearly, if they are good players, then what do they have to worry about? As for the bad players, the gap encourages for better learning your class. There are both Positives and Negatives to the gear gap.

We complain because everything we have earned is taken and give away for free to people simply because they throw a big enough fit. These people complaining wouldnt even have T1 weap/shoulder/helm if this was still wotlk. That was a bit harsh to have them walk around with over half set including weapon being 1 season behind. So blizzard went n gave that gear to them with 0 skill being required. This of course wasn't enough and they added rBGs which provided bad players a chance to play some lazy role on a team and get carried to 2200 and get T2. Being high rated in arena doesn't even yield you a higher cap than a less skilled player these days. A person whos 1700 in rBGs can literally have the same cap as someone who's 2200 in arena.

They have slowly taken away every reason to be good in arena and you guys honestly wonder why were pissed when the one last thing we had left is taken away?
They have slowly taken away every reason to be good in arena and you guys honestly wonder why were pissed when the one last thing we had left is taken away?


If you had 1 piece or more of 'Elite' gear in your inventory, and the game would not allow you to face someone who has not received an 'Elite' piece of gear (this would include Low-MMR Arena, Random BGs, and Players under level 90), would you still want your 'Elite' gear?

@Whyndoor Please explain to me why this gear is so important to you? And don't say 'because we earned it'. I want to know real game mechanics and theories of why keeping this kind of gear in the game is so important? Because, as I see, it only widens the gap between good and bad players...

It is self explanatory why do people do quests for months for get a legendary? Why do people wipe on heroics for weeks to get a new weapon? This game is about increasing the power of your character everyone knows this. It is understood if you are better you are rewarded with better gear.

You don't see the PvEr's asking for heroic gear to just flat out replace normal drops. They even have enough sense to realize how stupid this would be. Its why the game has varying degrees of difficulty and rewards you based on it.

If you don't like how MMOs are designed i suggest you go play SC2 or CoD. MMOs have always rewarded the players who put more time in/are more skilled by providing them with better items. This was understood for how many years now its just a shame the mentality of the players these days is to cry n whine for it instead of just earning it themselves.

You guys act as if this is some sort of lottery system that people are chosen at random to receive T2 weapons at the beginning of each season just to hold you guys back from getting them yourselves. All of you have the same fair chance we have to get the weapon it is not our fault that you lack the skill to do so. Why should we be penalized and have a reward taken from us just so you guys can run around and get your asses kicked with a T2 weapon equipped instead of a T1?

I should have known enough from how your speaking but i figured i would check and what a shocker.

Highest 5 man personal rating--
Highest 3 man personal rating 1,500
Highest 2 man personal rating 1,500

You are one of those people that will never earn the item yourself so of course here you are defending the hand outs like the others.
03/21/2013 06:19 PMPosted by Darican
They have slowly taken away every reason to be good in arena and you guys honestly wonder why were pissed when the one last thing we had left is taken away?


If you had 1 piece or more of 'Elite' gear in your inventory, and the game would not allow you to face someone who has not received an 'Elite' piece of gear (this would include Low-MMR Arena, Random BGs, and Players under level 90), would you still want your 'Elite' gear?

Im perfectly fine with only going against other 2200 players in arena n rBGs i myself have mentioned in the past that when you use elite gear you should be forced into a higher bracket and not go against the lower ranked people but that was ignored i guess giving hand outs is an easier solution. I am in no way an arena junkie you can tell by my armory i get 2200 get geared and stop doing arena and just world pvp n BG with friends. Not being able to kill people below 90 would piss me off though as i primary world pvp and sometimes have to use camping a guilds low levels to lure them out.

So sure go ahead n make it so i que up at a min of 2200 in arena and rBGs i really don't care. I get the items to improve myself, not to beat on people that i could use a white wand and still beat in duels. Giving them the weapon won't change the outcome of the fights and that's what pisses me off. They are essentially taking something we take pride in earning and giving it to bad players just for the sake of saying here you go to shut them up. They still are bad players and that doesn't change. It's just a shame they have to take from us just to shut them up even though it actually doesn't solve the fact that they are indeed god awful and won't beat us no matter what.

It essentially fixes an imaginary problem/escuse in their minds with the expense of taking a reward from the good players.
Of course you shouldn't quit, and of course coming to the forums is a place for giving ideas for the Devs and other players. But this argument about 2200 gear for PvP is ridiculous. I find it a bit sad for the 2200 and under because they will rarely run into a 2200 Elite geared player, and if they did then they would not stand a chance even with the same gear. So why fight over the gear. But what about the 2200 and above? If they can beat the other players without the gear, then why fight over it? To me, it looks like some of these people are just sick of the game on a whole, or really are not playing for PvP reasons and more for, I don't know.


I agree for the most part. I will say, however, with RBG's getting people 2200 more easily, the amount of T2 gear in lower brackets had gone up significantly last season, and into this season while people are still gearing up.

So, is it still a silly suggestion?


For someone who's looking for the perfect hardcore PvP scene? No, that's not a silly suggested. I'm only trying to speak for myself, and I enjoy PvP for the competitive piece of it. I'm far too casual to scream for absolutely perfect balance (class or gear-wise), but I do think when the differences are too large, it takes away from the fun, which is the whole point of a game in my opinion.

I'm no bad-!@# at PvP, but I also don't consider myself a push over. But does that mean I deserve what a 2200 skilled player receives? I think not~! But to have gear that would lead to a direct determiner to winning, in a PvP setting, should be based more on player skill than simple gearing. I mean, gear me in all Purps and I will destroy most of those in Contenders Gear, and will most likely win to those in Blues. This, in my opinion, when it comes to PvP, is inane.

I am just sick of seeing 'good players' complaining about this. I mean, clearly, if they are good players, then what do they have to worry about? As for the bad players, the gap encourages for better learning your class. There are both Positives and Negatives to the gear gap.

Honestly, I'm torn XD

BTW, I think having more rewards for PvPing, and not being gear based, would be a great idea or addition.


Yep, I pretty much agree here. I do see where the high-rank players who hate this are coming from. It's hard for a reward to be worthwhile when it's only cosmetic, but preserving competition the best we can (while remaining in the spirit of an MMO) is a good idea if you ask me.
Well, there is a conquest quartermaster next to all the PvP vendors. So tabards inc?
03/21/2013 06:30 PMPosted by Wyndoor


If you had 1 piece or more of 'Elite' gear in your inventory, and the game would not allow you to face someone who has not received an 'Elite' piece of gear (this would include Low-MMR Arena, Random BGs, and Players under level 90), would you still want your 'Elite' gear?

Im perfectly fine with only going against other 2200 players in arena n rBGs i myself have mentioned in the past that when you use elite gear you should be forced into a higher bracket and not go against the lower ranked people but that was ignored i guess giving hand outs is an easier solution. I am in no way an arena junkie you can tell by my armory i get 2200 get geared and stop doing arena and just world pvp n BG with friends. Not being able to kill people below 90 would piss me off though as i primary world pvp and sometimes have to use camping a guilds low levels to lure them out.

So sure go ahead n make it so i que up at a min of 2200 in arena and rBGs i really don't care. I get the items to improve myself, not to beat on people that i could use a white wand and still beat in duels. Giving them the weapon won't change the outcome of the fights and that's what pisses me off. They are essentially taking something we take pride in earning and giving it to bad players just for the sake of saying here you go to shut them up. They still are bad players and that doesn't change. It's just a shame they have to take from us just to shut them up even though it actually doesn't solve the fact that they are indeed god awful and won't beat us no matter what.

It essentially fixes an imaginary problem/escuse in their minds with the expense of taking a reward from the good players.


I earned it.

I could care less if they put it back.
Because it's a video game.

inb4 points out I got it from RBG's without reading my previous post as to why.

Get over yourself.
You're the only one supporting your entitled point of view;
And thank heavens MMO's as a whole are moving away from catering to you whiners.
03/21/2013 07:11 PMPosted by Scirøn
Of course you shouldn't quit, and of course coming to the forums is a place for giving ideas for the Devs and other players. But this argument about 2200 gear for PvP is ridiculous. I find it a bit sad for the 2200 and under because they will rarely run into a 2200 Elite geared player, and if they did then they would not stand a chance even with the same gear. So why fight over the gear. But what about the 2200 and above? If they can beat the other players without the gear, then why fight over it? To me, it looks like some of these people are just sick of the game on a whole, or really are not playing for PvP reasons and more for, I don't know.


I agree for the most part. I will say, however, with RBG's getting people 2200 more easily, the amount of T2 gear in lower brackets had gone up significantly last season, and into this season while people are still gearing up.

So, is it still a silly suggestion?


For someone who's looking for the perfect hardcore PvP scene? No, that's not a silly suggested. I'm only trying to speak for myself, and I enjoy PvP for the competitive piece of it. I'm far too casual to scream for absolutely perfect balance (class or gear-wise), but I do think when the differences are too large, it takes away from the fun, which is the whole point of a game in my opinion.

I'm no bad-!@# at PvP, but I also don't consider myself a push over. But does that mean I deserve what a 2200 skilled player receives? I think not~! But to have gear that would lead to a direct determiner to winning, in a PvP setting, should be based more on player skill than simple gearing. I mean, gear me in all Purps and I will destroy most of those in Contenders Gear, and will most likely win to those in Blues. This, in my opinion, when it comes to PvP, is inane.

I am just sick of seeing 'good players' complaining about this. I mean, clearly, if they are good players, then what do they have to worry about? As for the bad players, the gap encourages for better learning your class. There are both Positives and Negatives to the gear gap.

Honestly, I'm torn XD

BTW, I think having more rewards for PvPing, and not being gear based, would be a great idea or addition.


Yep, I pretty much agree here. I do see where the high-rank players who hate this are coming from. It's hard for a reward to be worthwhile when it's only cosmetic, but preserving competition the best we can (while remaining in the spirit of an MMO) is a good idea if you ask me.


Rewards should have been purely cosmetic from the start;
The only reason Jimmy's whining is because he will actually have to work harder to get his rankings rather than push 2200 quickly, grab the weapon and ride his way easy mode for an entire patch.

Because that's the only justification for T2 existing in it's previous incarnation.
Giving them the weapon won't change the outcome of the fights and that's what pisses me off. They are essentially taking something we take pride in earning and giving it to bad players just for the sake of saying here you go to shut them up.


This answered it for me right here.

(With out being sarcastic) I recant any terrible thing I might have said about this game. I am just gonna scrub myself clean of this and start fresh.
wyndoor mad at the world for some reason LOL
Well you see i am not one of you scrubs that have to rely on these sort of changes to get good items i actually earn them so of course our outlooks and opinions are going to differ. You require hand outs when i do not :)
You deserve T2 weapon's why exactly? Last time i checked you won't be running in T2 geared people in your bracket


u must not see the low brackets that often cuz 1200 or 2200 ppl have t2 gear
Wyndoor = http://i.imgur.com/kFPyV.jpg
Christ Wyndoor, please just relax...

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