An In-depth Guide to Feral PvP (5.4 Updated)

Druid
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Love it. Sticky requested!
edit: As this is kind of disagreeable, I'll just leave it: Agi is debatable for various reasons. I didn't want to force my opinion in your shiny new thread, I just don't think PvP power is the overall winner, I think they both have great benefits and it would be hard to pick one over the other indefinitely - and I wanted people who read this thread to stumble upon the argument for agility as well.


Well this is a PvP discussion thread, and since neither of us have been throwing derogatory terms at each other, I welcome it as good discussion.

I'm going to try my best at some math here (was great at it back in high school, seem to have gotten bad at it with no practice):

Total # of (non-meta)sockets over a full PvP gear set: 12.

      For the sake of comparison let's say we ignore all socket bonuses and just gem either purely agility or purely PvP power.

    • AGI: 12*160 = 1920*1.05 (leather spec) = 2016*1.05 (Motw) = 2116.8
    • 1 Agil = .476 Crit Rating
    • 2116.8*.476=1007.5968 Crit rating.
    • Alaron has 1 point of crit at ~.36 of Agility in t15H gear, so for argument's sake we'll say ~.45 to offset the item level.
    • 1007.5968*.45=453.41856
    • 453.1856+2116.8 = 2570.21856

    Total: 2570.21856 AGI


    • PvP Power: 12*320 = 3840.

    Total: 3840 PvP Power.


Now let's take damage conversion. We'll use Rip in this example since I can't find an easy answer for the conversion of Mangle or Shred. Let's say before we gem the gear we have 10000 agility. That makes for 20000 AP.

Rip = 113 + 320 * 5 * 1.25 + 0.0484 * 5 * AP * 1.25 * 8

    • AGI Rip = 113 + 320 * 5 * 1.25 + 0.0484 * 5 * (20000+2570.21856) * 1.25 * 8
    • AGI Rip = 113 + 2000 + 54619.9289152

    AGI Rip = 56732.9289152 Damage over 16 seconds. (probably not right, but it gives me a comparable number)


    • 265 PvP Power for 1% rating gain.
    • 3840 / 265 = 14.49056603773585% Power
    • PvP Power Rip = (113 + 320 * 5 * 1.25 + 0.0484 * 5 * (20000) * 1.25 * 8) * 1.1449056603773585
    • PvP Power Rip = (113 + 2000 + 48400) * 1.1449056603773585

    PvP Power Rip = 73196.19622641509 Damage over 16 seconds. (once again not right, but math was done the same way as above using PEMDAS)


Healing conversion time! We'll use Healing Touch since it's got a nice formula:
Healing Touch = 18460 to 21800 (+ 186% of SpellPower). We'll use a number in the middle, once again 20000. Let's say our spell healing for this example is 10000.

Firstly, 186.5% as a number is 3.865. (you wouldn't believe how much that conversion messed with my head)

    • AGI HT = 20000 + (3.865 * (10000+2570.21856))
    • AGI HT = 20000 + (48583.8947344)

    AGI HT = 68583.8947344


    • We get 25% healing from PvP Power.
    • 3840 / 4= 960
    • 960 / 265 = 3.622641509433962% PvP Power.
    • PvP Power HT = (20000 + (3.865 * 10000)) * 1.3622641509433962
    • PvP Power HT = (58650) * 1.3622641509433962

    PvP Power HT = 79896.79245283018


So in summary:
AGI Rip: ~56733 Damage over 16 seconds
AGI HT: ~68584 Health Restored

PvP Power Rip: ~73196 Damage over 16 seconds
PvP Power HT: ~79897 Health restored

NOW WHO WANTS TO CHECK MY MATH?! :D
NOW WHO WANTS TO CHECK MY MATH?! :D

2+2 = 42
6*24 = 42
LOG(8/(cos(5)*533968)) = 42.

(As you can see, I should not be the one to check maths.... :P I did, however, lick and sticky!!)

Edit: ....That was supposed to be "like and sticky," but it was way too funny to correct. :P
Liked and stickied.
Hey Lissanna, can you drag someone to the thread for sticking? :o
Happy Easter.

I was driving home from work this morning and almost hit a rabbit while simultaneously the song White Rabbit by Egypt Central started playing.

I obviously took that as "go kill people in pvp listening to egypt central for easter".

And so I did. And it was glorious.
I notice not a lot of ferals using thrash for single target extra bleed. I know its 50 energy and doing medium-low damage but if you can I have noticed it provides some extra pressure. As for arenas not so much though because you could accidentally get the bleed on a healer or something preventing a sheep etc. Good guide though:)
As for arenas not so much though because you could accidentally get the bleed on a healer or something preventing a sheep etc. Good guide though:)

Mages don't still have the glyph that removes DOTs from sheep targets?
I notice not a lot of ferals using thrash for single target extra bleed. I know its 50 energy and doing medium-low damage but if you can I have noticed it provides some extra pressure. As for arenas not so much though because you could accidentally get the bleed on a healer or something preventing a sheep etc. Good guide though:)


Actually Thrash is mainly used on melee classes to toss up the 10% physical damage reduction debuff on them. I would never bother using it on a caster due to the steep energy cost.

Mages don't still have the glyph that removes DOTs from sheep targets?

Most don't bother running it in 3s anymore, though I know a few comps that use it (Shatterplay being one).
Fantastic guide. However I have one query:

Prowl/Rip:
#showtooltip
/cast [combat] Rip; Prowl

If you're in combat you cast Rip, otherwise you cast Prowl.


How does this interact with Incarnation/King of the Jungle? If we wanted to stealth while in combat this macro only lets us cast rip. Meaning in order to stealth we have to have in on another keybind.

:/
How does this interact with Incarnation/King of the Jungle? If we wanted to stealth while in combat this macro only lets us cast rip. Meaning in order to stealth we have to have in on another keybind.

:/


Right. I actually have a separate bind I use for Prowl specifically for KotJ purposes, I simply use that bind for initial stealths (or restealths) since I'd become so accustomed to it.

I suppose I should either delete that or add an addendum to explain that it might be counterproductive during KotJ.

Edit: Went ahead and deleted it as it appeared counterproductive to note "Hey, this is useful but it's probably better to just bind Prowl." Also added an addendum to the Pounce/FB macro.
This is a great guide. I've requested a sticky, hopefully everyone else has too.
Wish i understoods the math :(

Oh well. Good show m8. Sticky requested.
Oh god. I completely forgot about crabby / Microsoft Bob / Clippy being on the forums today... >.<

And another bump. :P
Why hasn't this been stickied yet?
Awesome guide, exactly what I needed. Sticky requested.
One question, why is expertise so low on the stat priority list? Most melee dps I've played have hit and expertise caps as first priority. What makes ferals different? Thanks!
One question, why is expertise so low on the stat priority list? Most melee dps I've played have hit and expertise caps as first priority. What makes ferals different? Thanks!


Our main combo-building attack (Shred) requires us to be behind the target, where they can't dodge or parry. We also re-gain a percentage of the energy lost on attacks that failed to hit the target.

From my understanding most melees go for expertise vs casters (the only classes they can cap against) to make sure they can't dodge their stuns/big attacks, something feral usually doesn't have to worry about since with our mobility it's no problem to get behind someone.
Kals, not related to the guide but why the proc trinket over the on use? I've seen a few high rated druids going this route and was curious as to why? Just the reduced bonus from the old on use trink?
Just personal preference really. I figured I'd try it out since most of my gear was upgraded already. I think most of the people you see using proc are engineers (can't use Engi and On-use at the same time) since the glove bonus is still really good and you can just use that with either every other TF or every Vigil.

I imagine I'll probably go back to on-use if I make a season push but proc is decent for feral since I'm on target most of the time anyways.
This would've been great to have at the start of MoP. Stickied.

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