Hunter Abilities

Hunter
Please don't get rid of my hunter buttons. I love our current rotation and the intricacies in the class. With not having to stay still or switch aspects in order to cast my energy generator playing a hunter with less buttons would be a little less engaging. Ty and good work on continuing to keep this game interesting and fun to play.
any chance on removing some hunter ability bloat in 6.0?(maybe before?) seems too many buttons since MoP
(Blue) We tried to remove some before but still get "Bring back Eyes of the Beast!" requests. We'll try again. (Source)

If you don't want to use EOTB you don't have to, but having readiness means the class has to use it for bestDPS
(Blue) Sure, but we could buff every shot to compensate and call it a day. Hunters have plenty of ways to demonstrate skill these days. (Source)
(Blue) We think the core rotation buttons are fine. There are a LOT of situational hunter buttons though. (Source)

when I complain about bloat, I mean abilities that are part of my dps rotation, like Glaive, DireBeast, Crows, Stampede.
(Blue) You have a passive option to Dire Beast. We could add one to the Crows row. Rapid Fire and Readiness could probably be pruned. (Source)

any change you make, you'll have a portion of the hunter base complaining, I wouldn't want to be on you shoes.
(Blue) Yup. All the hunters happy with the number of buttons (or specific ones) won't say much until they are gone. (Source)


This thread seems to be in response to this? Well, let me point out my 2 cents.

EotB: This was a fun ability that wasn't used rotational, and was a niche ability. Now, hunters do have a lot of niche abilities, but many of them are relatively common mechanics that either have overlap within the hunter's own tool kit (i.e. Distracting Shot vs Pet Growl), or abilities that just don't have a lot of effect on their own, and generally not worth the cost (i.e. Widow Venom not worth the GCD).

Dire Beast Tier: The passive choice bloats the GCD, which we don't have any to spare generally. It would be better if the proc didn't cause us to spend 3 GCD using said proc or else it is wasted. It isn't just abilities alone that cause an issue, there is no down time to a hunter's rotation, and every GCD is precious.

My thoughts on how to trim ability bloat:
1) Widow Venom - Bake it into Serpent Sting, but don't allow Cobra Shot/Chimera Shot/Serpent Spread to apply/refresh it. This way, we still have a button to apply the debuff specifically, but the button also brings its own damage along with it, causing the GCD to not be as costly for just a simple debuff.

2) Remove Distracting Shot, modify Growl to work just similar to other taunts (i.e. Player activated, off the GCD, 100 yard range player vs pet, 30 yard range pet vs target, works on any mob other taunts work on, not a simple fixate like Distracting Shot but a true taunt, no Auto-Cast setting

3) Turn Trap Launcher into Trap Shot. Fires the trap at the target, rooting the target in place for 1 second. Trap is placed randomly in a 3 yard radius around the target, triggering after 2 seconds. 1.5 sec cast time (no mobile cast). Buff Camo stealth protection vs mobs so we can use Camo to get close to the mobs for manually placing traps when OOC. Remove Scatter Shot. Yes this does hurt, but instead of using 2 GCDs for Scatter Trap, we have 1 GCD, with a cast time, for a Trap with a built in "scatter like" mechanic that should limit the need for a pre-CC to get our traps to work, but still allows for the Trap to be countered (i.e. root cleanse+mobility CD, ally eating the trap for the intended target, disarming/stunning the hunter during the cast, etc)

4) Modify Spirit Bond: Heals you pet for 8% of you and your pet's combined maximum health every 5 seconds. When this effect triggers, you and your pet's life totals are redistributed, such that both you and your pet end up with the same percentage of their maximum health. Replaces Mend Pet.

5) Remove Dismiss Pet - Adjust Call Pet to "swap" pets when you call Pet #2 while Pet #1 is active after 3 seconds (mean while, Pet #2 is pacified but still target-able). When you recall Pet #1 while Pet #1 is active, it dismisses the pet after 3 seconds (again, pacified but still target-able). Call Pet is still instant cast.

6) Remove Flare - Your pet provides a 8 yard area of enhanced "stealth detection" centered on itself. The pet doesn't attack immediately, instead the target is simply revealed (stealth is not broken).

7) Convert Lynx Rush into a "Thrash" style mechanic, where each Basic Attack, or Thrash, has a chance of triggering Thrash (which is just a simply damage dealing attack). No ICD, so you can have multiple thrashes. Passive choice for the tier.

8) Have Glaive Toss replace Arcane Shot (no cooldown, each strike of GT reduces movement speed by 10% for 3 seconds, stacking up to 5 times, primary target is "struck" 4 times). GT should do more damage than Arcane Shot, but also cost slightly more focus (intent is to limit the ability to spam GT while keeping similar levels of damage when compared to the other talent choices).

9) Hunter's Mark no longer increases RAP (damage is baked in), instead is serves as a anti-stealth mechanic (same as current), and provides a "fixate" target for your pet's on the assist behavior. Marked for Death mechanic removed. Hunter's Mark does not trigger a GCD when used on a non-stealthed target.

10) Readiness is adjusted to non-damage utility only (and not BW). Damage lost is baked in.

11) Rapid Fire removed from BM/SV. Bestial Wrath/TBW no longer breaks CC. Kill Commands clears your pet of Stuns, Roots and Snares. SV gains a CD which triggers LNL every 6 seconds for the next 12 seconds, consuming Black Arrow in the process.

Just a bunch of random ideas really.
you have a lot of outstanding ideas here.

1) Widow Venom - Bake it into Serpent Sting {love it.
- excellent idea (except im not sure if the extra damage is needed after that.)

2) Remove Distracting Shot, modify Growl {meh...
- all this would achieve at most is trade Distracting Shot for Growl, and it doesn't reduce the amount of buttons we have to press since no one key binds growl.

3) Turn Trap Launcher into Trap Shot. {not bad.
- unless the root lasts long enough to always trap the target, like scatter shot, there's no point in it.

4) Modify Spirit Bond {WoW!
- very cool idea.

5) Remove Dismiss Pet - Adjust Call Pet to "swap" pets {want it.
- this would make a new pet utility every 3 secs even easier to access, but w/o scatter shot in our spell book this could even things out more.(they might need to make it so the same pets can't be swapped out a second time while your in combat)

6)Remove Flare - Your pet provides a 8 yard area of enhanced "stealth detection" {WoW!
-ti's sick, but 8 yards is too small to react to. 10 should be fine.

7) Convert Lynx Rush into a "Thrash" style mechanic, {I wouldn't mind this
- would love to see pets behave so fierce (assuming you meant to keep the LR visual)

9) Hunter's Mark no longer increases RAP {YES!! Save HM!
1) Widow Venom - Bake it into Serpent Sting {love it.
- excellent idea (except im not sure if the extra damage is needed after that.)

There isn't any extra damage, just the refreshing (or application) of Serpent Sting.

2) Remove Distracting Shot, modify Growl {meh...
- all this would achieve at most is trade Distracting Shot for Growl, and it doesn't reduce the amount of buttons we have to press since no one key binds growl.

Players bind growl for totems/spell reflect in PVP, so I heard. This is mostly a performance fix, and for the cases where you do manually use growl (i.e. solo, small group), it removes an extra button.

3) Turn Trap Launcher into Trap Shot. {not bad.
- unless the root lasts long enough to always trap the target, like scatter shot, there's no point in it.

They have 1 second to get out of the trigger range. Unless they burn a CD (i.e. Blink, Sprint, etc) they won't get away quick enough. Unlike Scatter, they won't path away from it. The 1-3 yard range on the placement is so their teammates can eat the trap for them...if they react in the 2-3 seconds they have once they see the cast. Basically, it just builts in a better Scatter to every Trap Cast, removes the manual aiming, and to balance, makes it not an instant cast effect.

6)Remove Flare - Your pet provides a 8 yard area of enhanced "stealth detection" {WoW!
-ti's sick, but 8 yards is too small to react to. 10 should be fine.

Aiming on the side of caution was all +)

7) Convert Lynx Rush into a "Thrash" style mechanic, {I wouldn't mind this
- would love to see pets behave so fierce (assuming you meant to keep the LR visual)

Would be great flavor, but Thrash would have to ignore Parry then, since you can't really control how LR tosses the pat all over the place.
1) Widow Venom - Bake it into Serpent Sting, but don't allow Cobra Shot/Chimera Shot/Serpent Spread to apply/refresh it. This way, we still have a button to apply the debuff specifically, but the button also brings its own damage along with it, causing the GCD to not be as costly for just a simple debuff.

2) Remove Distracting Shot, modify Growl to work just similar to other taunts (i.e. Player activated, off the GCD, 100 yard range player vs pet, 30 yard range pet vs target, works on any mob other taunts work on, not a simple fixate like Distracting Shot but a true taunt, no Auto-Cast setting

3) Turn Trap Launcher into Trap Shot. Fires the trap at the target, rooting the target in place for 1 second. Trap is placed randomly in a 3 yard radius around the target, triggering after 2 seconds. 1.5 sec cast time (no mobile cast). Buff Camo stealth protection vs mobs so we can use Camo to get close to the mobs for manually placing traps when OOC. Remove Scatter Shot. Yes this does hurt, but instead of using 2 GCDs for Scatter Trap, we have 1 GCD, with a cast time, for a Trap with a built in "scatter like" mechanic that should limit the need for a pre-CC to get our traps to work, but still allows for the Trap to be countered (i.e. root cleanse+mobility CD, ally eating the trap for the intended target, disarming/stunning the hunter during the cast, etc)

4) Modify Spirit Bond: Heals you pet for 8% of you and your pet's combined maximum health every 5 seconds. When this effect triggers, you and your pet's life totals are redistributed, such that both you and your pet end up with the same percentage of their maximum health. Replaces Mend Pet.

5) Remove Dismiss Pet - Adjust Call Pet to "swap" pets when you call Pet #2 while Pet #1 is active after 3 seconds (mean while, Pet #2 is pacified but still target-able). When you recall Pet #1 while Pet #1 is active, it dismisses the pet after 3 seconds (again, pacified but still target-able). Call Pet is still instant cast.

6) Remove Flare - Your pet provides a 8 yard area of enhanced "stealth detection" centered on itself. The pet doesn't attack immediately, instead the target is simply revealed (stealth is not broken).

7) Convert Lynx Rush into a "Thrash" style mechanic, where each Basic Attack, or Thrash, has a chance of triggering Thrash (which is just a simply damage dealing attack). No ICD, so you can have multiple thrashes. Passive choice for the tier.

8) Have Glaive Toss replace Arcane Shot (no cooldown, each strike of GT reduces movement speed by 10% for 3 seconds, stacking up to 5 times, primary target is "struck" 4 times). GT should do more damage than Arcane Shot, but also cost slightly more focus (intent is to limit the ability to spam GT while keeping similar levels of damage when compared to the other talent choices).

9) Hunter's Mark no longer increases RAP (damage is baked in), instead is serves as a anti-stealth mechanic (same as current), and provides a "fixate" target for your pet's on the assist behavior. Marked for Death mechanic removed. Hunter's Mark does not trigger a GCD when used on a non-stealthed target.

10) Readiness is adjusted to non-damage utility only (and not BW). Damage lost is baked in.

11) Rapid Fire removed from BM/SV. Bestial Wrath/TBW no longer breaks CC. Kill Commands clears your pet of Stuns, Roots and Snares. SV gains a CD which triggers LNL every 6 seconds for the next 12 seconds, consuming Black Arrow in the process.


I suppose this would be advantageous for PvE, but not so much for PVP, and here's why.

1.) There are times that you need to apply widow's venom and not serpent sting to a target in PvP.

2.) This does not have much affect on PvP, so I will skip it.

3.) A cast time for traps would take away a lot of the versatility that Hunters have to offer in a PvP setting. Also, the 1second delay between the root break and trap activation is hugely underpowered in a PvP setting. Especially with all the freedoms in the game now, it would be a pointless tradeoff to have a cast time but gain a root. Also, there are a large number of times where I do not use scatter shot to get a trap off. It's much easier to use a pet stun or a Disengage root and drop a trap than to scatter trap. I can use scatter as its own independent 3 second CC. Getting rid of this would just take away another tool that is needed for PvP.

4.) I believe that this would be advantageous to hunters, but not necessarily a good thing. If the hunter's health and pet's health were constantly at the same percentage, than a healer would lose the burden of having to target the pet for heals. He would know that the pet is high enough health if the hunter is.

5.) This just wouldn't be practical in arenas. No cast time on dismiss pet would make it too easy to switch pets without it being able to be interrupted or CC'ed. Especially if you are able to do this once your pet has died.

6.) Once again, just not practical for a PvP situation. Hunters shouldn't have to be standing on their target for a chance to get them out of stealth. And sending your pet around with the "stealth detection" risks you putting your pet in a bad spot to get easily killed.

7.) I've never used this talent so I cannot comment on it.

8.) This would cause a rearranging of the talent tier. If Arcane Shot was removed, Thrill of the Hunt would be useless. If Glaive Toss was affected by Thrill of the Hunt, it would be a completely overpowered mechanic.

9.) As you said, a Hunter's UI is bloated. Adding a separate spell to apply hunters mark would do nothing but add more bloat. There is a reason that Blizz made Marked for Death baseline.

10.) I don't think hunters can pull off enough sustained damage for this to be beneficial. The whole point of playing a hunter (BM in particular) is the fact that you can get off a huge burst. Removing the readiness effect on offensive cooldowns would do nothing short but take away a chunk of this burst damage.

11.) With the PvP set bonus, Rapid fire is by far the most important offensive cooldown in a hunter's PvP arsenal. Taking that away would make hunters practically obsolete. Also, a 6 second cooldown that gives your pet a freedom and stun break would be a grossly overpowered PvP ability. Especially if this is along with Master's Call and Beastial Wrath
1.) There are times that you need to apply widow's venom and not serpent sting to a target in PvP.

Simple solution for that would be a major glyph that causes the WV application to be applied via Arcane Shot, and not Serpent Sting. WV is a powerful effect in PVP, getting it baked into a normal ability is a fairly substantial buff, one not necessarily needed. So to counter it, tieing it to a DOT will limit its usefulness in PVP, but shouldn't really cause any problems for PVE.

Now, getting the ability to apply WV without a DOT, at the cost of a Major Glyph is simply trading the cost of having WV baked in from a DOT, to a DD that cost slightly more Focus.

04/09/2013 10:48 AMPosted by Salamence
3.) A cast time for traps would take away a lot of the versatility that Hunters have to offer in a PvP setting. Also, the 1second delay between the root break and trap activation is hugely underpowered in a PvP setting. Especially with all the freedoms in the game now, it would be a pointless tradeoff to have a cast time but gain a root.

Cast time is a subject to debate, but regarding the root break, instead of having to do a 4 sec daze pre-instant trap, you have a root attached to a cast time. End result, is the removal of the RNG pathing via scatter, the extra GCD, and our "instant" CC. Other than that, things end up mostly the same. Unless they use a CD (i.e. Root Break, Blink, Sprint, etc), they won't get away from the trap quick enough. If they use a CD, it would be akin to interrupting Poly, a CD to prevent a CC.

4.) I believe that this would be advantageous to hunters, but not necessarily a good thing. If the hunter's health and pet's health were constantly at the same percentage, than a healer would lose the burden of having to target the pet for heals. He would know that the pet is high enough health if the hunter is.

One, it is an option. Two it is every 5 seconds, not constantly. Three, overhealing on the pet/hunter wouldn't transfer over to the other, so if both are low (and if one is, chances are the other is), both would need healing to keep them up. Its one of those talents that people will hate or love, depending on how it works for them and their team. In PVE, since the majority of raid damage is AOE, we gain "mitigation" since said AOE barely tickles our pet, causing us to gain a chunk of health a few seconds later, so it does compete with IH fairly well.

5.) This just wouldn't be practical in arenas. No cast time on dismiss pet would make it too easy to switch pets without it being able to be interrupted or CC'ed. Especially if you are able to do this once your pet has died.

While I personally think you should be able to, that is a bigger undertaking. For now, pet has to be alive, and if the pet dies, the swap is cancelled. There still is a delay (3 seconds), which could be increased slightly if it ends up to good. During the delay, the current pet is pacified, effectively instantly dismissing, except it could still be killed.

8.) This would cause a rearranging of the talent tier. If Arcane Shot was removed, Thrill of the Hunt would be useless. If Glaive Toss was affected by Thrill of the Hunt, it would be a completely overpowered mechanic.

Hmm...didn't think of that, but I don't see how it would be too over-powered. Might need some additional tweaks (i.e. perhaps no AOE damage, only AOE snare?).

04/09/2013 10:48 AMPosted by Salamence
9.) As you said, a Hunter's UI is bloated. Adding a separate spell to apply hunters mark would do nothing but add more bloat. There is a reason that Blizz made Marked for Death baseline.

The spell is already separate spell, granted MFD covers a bulk of its use. It becomes utility only, but it isn't purely a situational ability, as having your pet fixate on a target would go a long way to address issues with the assist AI. Could probably just scrap it (HM) completely when you couple it with the Pet Stealth idea I mentioned above honestly, but adding an off the GCD ability we can macro to Pet-Attack shouldn't add to much bloat.

11.) With the PvP set bonus, Rapid fire is by far the most important offensive cooldown in a hunter's PvP arsenal. Taking that away would make hunters practically obsolete. Also, a 6 second cooldown that gives your pet a freedom and stun break would be a grossly overpowered PvP ability. Especially if this is along with Master's Call and Beastial Wrath

PVP bonus - Can be adjusted to apply to Rapid Fire, Bestial Wrath and the SV CD fairly easily.
KC CC Break - This would come with a removal of the CC break on BW and TBW, and it is pet only, not the player. Plus, it is a break, not an immunity. Basically, if you want to CC a BM hunter's pet, you need to use a direct target CC, or a Fear. Frost Nova won't cut it, nor will Shadowfury (which typically are not used on just the pet). Note: BM relies far more on pet up time than MM/SV, which was the entire point of the anti-CC mechanics of BW in the first place.

Edit: Plus you can CC the pet, and silence the hunter to extend the time the pet is stunned/rooted/snared, since the hunter can't KC while silenced.
Yeah I suppose all things are able to be modified, it would take pretty long for Blizz to have to tweak everything, but I guess most of it can be done.

The spell is already separate spell, granted MFD covers a bulk of its use. It becomes utility only, but it isn't purely a situational ability, as having your pet fixate on a target would go a long way to address issues with the assist AI. Could probably just scrap it (HM) completely when you couple it with the Pet Stealth idea I mentioned above honestly, but adding an off the GCD ability we can macro to Pet-Attack shouldn't add to much bloat.


As of 5.2 MFD is now a baseline passive ability and Hunters Mark is kind of obsolete to be used. If you hunters mark someone and then Arcane Shot someone else, the first target loses the mark and the target that you've Arcane Shotted obtains the Hunters Mark. I just cant really see it being beneficial to have your pet attack whoever is Marked.
As of 5.2 MFD is now a baseline passive ability and Hunters Mark is kind of obsolete to be used. If you hunters mark someone and then Arcane Shot someone else, the first target loses the mark and the target that you've Arcane Shotted obtains the Hunters Mark. I just cant really see it being beneficial to have your pet attack whoever is Marked.

Part of that tweak would be to remove MfD. HM would be purely a anti-stealth and pet fixate ability.

Coupled with the other pet stealth idea, you could probably make HM purely a pet fixate mechanic, and leave the stealth side for the pet only...which at that point, you might as well build that into Pet Attack, and have Hunter's Mark be a passive effect which indicates which target your pet is attacking.

Since it is part of Pet Attack then, UH Dks, F-Mages, Locks, and anyone else with a controllable pet (some shamans for instance) would all have a built in "fixate" for their pets.
04/09/2013 05:10 AMPosted by Verdash
9) Hunter's Mark no longer increases RAP (damage is baked in), instead is serves as a anti-stealth mechanic (same as current),

04/09/2013 10:48 AMPosted by Salamence
9.) As you said, a Hunter's UI is bloated. Adding a separate spell to apply hunters mark would do nothing but add more bloat. There is a reason that Blizz made Marked for Death baseline.

The spell is already separate spell, granted MFD covers a bulk of its use. It becomes utility only, but it isn't purely a situational ability, as having your pet fixate on a target would go a long way to address issues with the assist AI. Could probably just scrap it (HM) completely when you couple it with the Pet Stealth idea I mentioned above honestly, but adding an off the GCD ability we can macro to Pet-Attack shouldn't add to much bloat.

just wanted to add onto Verdash's response that; with HM already being automatically applied to our main target, its damage component might as well be passive, but not along with its second stealth vision component.

That stealth vision is still an important asset and shouldn't be neglected by completely removing HM. without it we wouldn't be as capable of bracing against any stealth class. Besides, there's other creative uses for HM that don't involve the damage part of it like eating dispells with it, and im sure some other players have their own ways of using it.

So these 2 functions need to be separated, Instead of just attending to the damage and ignoring the utility, this way if we're not going to use it for it's utility then we don't have to add it to our bar and we can still keep it's damage, which would serve the same as removing it, w/o actually having to.

I would much rather have Flare sacrificed for a passive pet stealth detection, but it might need a togglable auto attack like the old aggressive stance had attempted for, except specifically against stealth near the pet.

6.) Once again, just not practical for a PvP situation. Hunters shouldn't have to be standing on their target for a chance to get them out of stealth. And sending your pet around with the "stealth detection" risks you putting your pet in a bad spot to get easily killed.

I'm not sure of how practical it would be but it sounds like we'd be walking the dog in search of something, and when it comes to sending our pet in, having the enemy open on our pet gives us a great advantage, as the pet serve as a punching bag, and they shouldn't be able to kill it unless they were trying, and if they were trying they just waisted their energy on the pet instead of the hunter.

My thoughts on how to trim ability bloat:
1) Widow Venom - Bake it into Serpent Sting, but don't allow Cobra Shot/Chimera Shot/Serpent Spread to apply/refresh it. This way, we still have a button to apply the debuff specifically, but the button also brings its own damage along with it, causing the GCD to not be as costly for just a simple debuff.

Yes, something we've been asking for since widow venom.

2) Remove Distracting Shot, modify Growl to work just similar to other taunts (i.e. Player activated, off the GCD, 100 yard range player vs pet, 30 yard range pet vs target, works on any mob other taunts work on, not a simple fixate like Distracting Shot but a true taunt, no Auto-Cast setting

No, this screws us in soloing and slightly in pvp. No more kiting mobs while your pet heals or ping-ponging them between you for soloing, no clearing a spell reflect/intervene with distracting shot.

3) Turn Trap Launcher into Trap Shot. Fires the trap at the target, rooting the target in place for 1 second. Trap is placed randomly in a 3 yard radius around the target, triggering after 2 seconds. 1.5 sec cast time (no mobile cast). Buff Camo stealth protection vs mobs so we can use Camo to get close to the mobs for manually placing traps when OOC. Remove Scatter Shot. Yes this does hurt, but instead of using 2 GCDs for Scatter Trap, we have 1 GCD, with a cast time, for a Trap with a built in "scatter like" mechanic that should limit the need for a pre-CC to get our traps to work, but still allows for the Trap to be countered (i.e. root cleanse+mobility CD, ally eating the trap for the intended target, disarming/stunning the hunter during the cast, etc)

And there goes any use at all for explosive shot glyph, if you can't place it on the right side of the target you're trying to knock flying. Plus a 1.5s cast time when you have to stand still?! Hell no, that's clunkier than our current mechanics.

4) Modify Spirit Bond: Heals you pet for 8% of you and your pet's combined maximum health every 5 seconds. When this effect triggers, you and your pet's life totals are redistributed, such that both you and your pet end up with the same percentage of their maximum health. Replaces Mend Pet.

Great, so that dps runs behind a pillar, roots or stuns my pet, then burns it down and kills me? Good idea....

5) Remove Dismiss Pet - Adjust Call Pet to "swap" pets when you call Pet #2 while Pet #1 is active after 3 seconds (mean while, Pet #2 is pacified but still target-able). When you recall Pet #1 while Pet #1 is active, it dismisses the pet after 3 seconds (again, pacified but still target-able). Call Pet is still instant cast.

Would negate their 'nerf' to dismiss pet for pvp pet swapping so I doubt they'd go for this.

6) Remove Flare - Your pet provides a 8 yard area of enhanced "stealth detection" centered on itself. The pet doesn't attack immediately, instead the target is simply revealed (stealth is not broken).

Hell no. I want my stealth detection where I want it, not wherever my pet happens to be, I'd much rather have my flare down on myself while my pet is off attacking the stealthies healer thanks.

7) Convert Lynx Rush into a "Thrash" style mechanic, where each Basic Attack, or Thrash, has a chance of triggering Thrash (which is just a simply damage dealing attack). No ICD, so you can have multiple thrashes. Passive choice for the tier.

Eh and there goes a non-MM hunter's way to keep a rogue from stealthing, if only for a little every 1m30, with the bleed effect they can't cloak.

8) Have Glaive Toss replace Arcane Shot (no cooldown, each strike of GT reduces movement speed by 10% for 3 seconds, stacking up to 5 times, primary target is "struck" 4 times). GT should do more damage than Arcane Shot, but also cost slightly more focus (intent is to limit the ability to spam GT while keeping similar levels of damage when compared to the other talent choices).

So if we have a cc'd target near our kill target we're short an attack to use, plus GT does physical damage not magic so doesn't bypass armor.

9) Hunter's Mark no longer increases RAP (damage is baked in), instead is serves as a anti-stealth mechanic (same as current), and provides a "fixate" target for your pet's on the assist behavior. Marked for Death mechanic removed. Hunter's Mark does not trigger a GCD when used on a non-stealthed target.

So basically this changes....nothing?

10) Readiness is adjusted to non-damage utility only (and not BW). Damage lost is baked in.

Only good idea in the lot, would nerf BM's double trinket and stop a lot of the whining, thus stopping us getting overall nerfs just because one of our specs is OP.
04/10/2013 04:46 PMPosted by Katzbalger
No, this screws us in soloing and slightly in pvp. No more kiting mobs while your pet heals or ping-ponging them between you for soloing, no clearing a spell reflect/intervene with distracting shot.

It was my understanding that Growl worked for Spell Reflect, not Distracting Shot?

04/10/2013 04:46 PMPosted by Katzbalger
And there goes any use at all for explosive shot glyph, if you can't place it on the right side of the target you're trying to knock flying. Plus a 1.5s cast time when you have to stand still?! Hell no, that's clunkier than our current mechanics.

Fair enough - But I wouldn't consider that removing all usefulness from the trap, they still get knocked back. As for the cast time, it parrallels with other long term CC fairly well, and the trade off is not have to spend 2 GCDs setting the up, and a significant reduction in RNG (Scatter pathing) failure.

Great, so that dps runs behind a pillar, roots or stuns my pet, then burns it down and kills me? Good idea....

Note Spirit Bond is an option, there are 2 others. Some may find better use for it in other scenarios (i.e. PVE).

04/10/2013 04:46 PMPosted by Katzbalger
Hell no. I want my stealth detection where I want it, not wherever my pet happens to be, I'd much rather have my flare down on myself while my pet is off attacking the stealthies healer thanks.

Fair enough, but flare is one of those extremely situational abilities, and having our pet provide the effect passively (position is a trade off for up time) is a decent trade.

04/10/2013 04:46 PMPosted by Katzbalger
Eh and there goes a non-MM hunter's way to keep a rogue from stealthing, if only for a little every 1m30, with the bleed effect they can't cloak.

Crows?

04/10/2013 04:46 PMPosted by Katzbalger
So if we have a cc'd target near our kill target we're short an attack to use, plus GT does physical damage not magic so doesn't bypass armor.

Not completely happy with this either after thinking about it, changing it to be a single target could also make it work, leaving Barrage as the AOE damage talent, and Powershot as a AOE knockback w/ damage. As for damage, it could deal nature damage (i.e. poisonous glaives), or literally just bypass armor as part of the effect. Also, its a talent, so it isn't forced on you if you would rather have the armor pen.
9) Hunter's Mark no longer increases RAP (damage is baked in), instead is serves as a anti-stealth mechanic (same as current), and provides a "fixate" target for your pet's on the assist behavior. Marked for Death mechanic removed. Hunter's Mark does not trigger a GCD when used on a non-stealthed target.

So basically this changes....nothing?

ofcoarse it changes, right now both the AP and rest of the ability's effect jumps to your current target, this would allow for only the AP to be applied to your current target, and as seamless as the AP element behaves there's no reason for it to even be an effect, it should just be built into the attacks them-selves to avoid this pointless application step. and this will free up the rest of HM's effect, giving it more flexibility than it ever had. so its a subtle change, that greatly improves the mechanic.

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