Some Tankadin Questions

Paladin
Alright, let me preface this by quickly stating that I've been juggling both the haste build and the mastery build forever and can't quite come to a decision on which one is honestly better and which one i should be going for. With the addition of a shoulder token, I now easily hit my expertise and hit caps, something that has always (for whatever reason) made me lean more towards the mastery build. I guess what I'm asking is: at my current gear level would it make more sense to go with haste or mastery?

Furthermore, what is the value of our t15 2 set? I generally only use it if the heal itself would of been valuable and i pick up the bonus as... I guess a bonus to playing smarter? is there any value of say, using Holy Avenger to use wog (for the 30% buff) and then using SoTR (to then mitigate more damage)? Or am i off base entirely and is wogging a go to thing with t15?

Does anyone have a Weakauras string for the t15 2 set?

Lastly, i could use any advice i can get to help me improve from where im currently at.

Thanks!
There's not really a gear level where haste or mastery surpass each other. It's more about your playstyle. Haste requires more precision, so if you have difficulty keeping up with the increased speed mastery may be preferable. In general, though, haste is superior because, while its defensive benefits are on par with mastery's, haste increases your damage output, and tank damage isn't trivial this expansion.

Set bonus: Don't change your ability usage for it. It's simply extra mitigation for the times you would use WoG anyway. It's not strong enough or reliable enough to give up ShoRs for.
You should absolutely be hitting 7.5% hit and 15% expertise for raiding. I mean, you can run lower, but there's no logic argument in favor of not doing so. I guess if you're talking... 14.99% expertise, yeah that's one Crusader Strike in a thousand being parried, no big deal compared to possibly reforging to (say) 15.09%.

Haste is flat-out superior to Mastery, and has been since MoP launch. The only way Mastery can come close to Haste's damage smoothing/damage reduction power is if you flat-out refuse to spec into or use Sacred Shield on yourself, and even then they still are at best within the margin of error. Add a decent Sacred Shield uptime (especially with high Vengeance levels, because SS scales so very well with attack power) and Haste is much stronger. And as was noted, Haste also does double duty by increasing your damage output as well.

The T15 2-piece doesn't have much if any impact on how you press your buttons. It's a nice bonus, but not worth really going crazy over. The 4-piece varies from "good" to "amazingly stellar overpowered" depending on how hard you're getting hit. Note that the damage->HP conversion happens after damage reduction, but does include absorbed damage.
Thanks for the input, I'm well aware that I need to strictly enforce my hit and expertise caps. I have no arguments there, as I've been struggling for quite some time to get enough expertise usually it resulted in me having absolutely no room to get extra haste/mastery (depending on what build I'm running). I made this post yesterday because i finally hit the level in which i could stop gemming and reforging (some) pieces to expertise.

My up time on scared shield is somewhere between 85%-95% depending on progression and a number of other factors (depending on how much i get distracted). Admitably the only thing that could get better is my rotation (something I'm actively working on).

Typically I'm an offtank though, so i don't know how that influences the effectiveness of haste, I don't seem to be seeing much of a difference at 16% haste over what i had previously. This may have something to do with the amount of vengeance i typically have (not always a ton because I'm the offtank. Is there a certain percentage were tanks see a more noticable difference or am i missing something here?
Haste scales linearly, so although you may not feel a difference, every point is increasing your speed at the same rate (at least until 50% melee haste, but you probably won't be seeing that any time soon).
And if you're the offtank I almost think that would make haste even more preferable over mastery. In that if you are spending less time tanking than the other tank (though generally both tanks tend to spend close to the same amount of time tanking), then all the time that you're not tanking mastery is useless while haste is still helping you deal more damage, and more healing through battle healer (though admittedly not by a lot since you won't have vengeance then either).
For sacred shield uptime, since SOTR is off the GCD you can just do a simple /cast macro, casting Sacred Shield and SOTR at the same time. 100% uptime in fights, all it does is give SOTR a GCD.

Has worked wonders for me and other prot paladins I've suggested it to.
For sacred shield uptime, since SOTR is off the GCD you can just do a simple /cast macro, casting Sacred Shield and SOTR at the same time. 100% uptime in fights, all it does is give SOTR a GCD.

Has worked wonders for me and other prot paladins I've suggested it to.


That seems like a lot of wasted GCDs to me. I would just get weakauras and screw around with it until you find one you like. It works pretty well for me.
04/18/2013 12:54 AMPosted by Dangoyan
100% uptime in fights, all it does is give SOTR a GCD.


That's good enough for the "just enough to get by" crowd, but it's not the way to go for maximizing your play.

ShotR on GCD delays your HP generators, and you can't get the most out of SS if you're spamming a macro on yourself. You want to line up SS refreshes with high AP moments, and sometimes you want to cast it on other people, like the guy currently tanking.
I have a weakaura that displays a icon when its not applied, since using weakauras im seeing close to 90% up time, i see this only getting better as i tweak the color and size of said icon to be more obvious with spell effects flying everywhere.
Sacred Shield mostly takes practice. I was already used to hitting Holy Shield every 30 seconds in Cataclysm so transitioning to Sacred Shield wasn't too bad, but for example on my monk keeping those maintenance buffs up took a bit of time to get used to. :P
I just have a Sacred Shield macro bound to my action bars and use it like any other rotational ability.

#showtooltip
/cast Sacred Shield [target=Tailias]

That's really it. (Obviously, don't use my name unless you want to cast it on me, or you named your toon after me.)

I seriously have 20-ish macros that are just self-cast macros for myself. Lay on Hands, Cleanse, Sacred Shield, Hand of Protection/Freedom, etc.

Not to mention the best macro of them all:

/cancelaura Divine Shield
/cancelaura Hand of Protection

Standard issue for any Protection Paladin who has to play the taunt+bubble+cleardebuff game on Durumu or Horridon or elsewhere.
I seriously have 20-ish macros that are just self-cast macros for myself

Are you often targeting other players? o.O If you're targeting an enemy, the game will make you cast helpful spells on yourself by default (unless you don't have that setting checked in the options).
04/18/2013 01:13 PMPosted by Keten
I seriously have 20-ish macros that are just self-cast macros for myself

Are you often targeting other players? o.O If you're targeting an enemy, the game will make you cast helpful spells on yourself by default (unless you don't have that setting checked in the options).


I keep that setting unchecked because I was a healer for so many expansions (in fact, I was Holy until this tier) and I often was swapping my target between players and bosses for various reasons.

I still find myself needing to target other players on occasion, not to mention the times where I accidentally click on a player in the field rather than a mob I mean to target. It drives my raid crazy, the DPS have given up trying to use me as a focus assist by now, lul.
I keep that setting unchecked because I was a healer for so many expansions (in fact, I was Holy until this tier) and I often was swapping my target between players and bosses for various reasons.

Oh, I see. I play a healer occasionally, but I use VuhDo and mouseover macros so I never target anything but the boss. :P

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