Ret DPS (Gear/CD help)

Paladin
I have been playing paladin for a good amount of time now, but I spent my time as a prot pally. When I picked up the game again (around the end of 5.1) I wanted to try something new, so I decided to go Ret. I really love it a lot, but I don't think I am maxing out my dps capabilities in my raid group. In most fights ill spike over 100k, but then over the course of the fight I drop to about 70k - 74k ish. (I am just estimating here). I have been readin the ret dps threads and been taking in all that yall have said about ret. I guess the main question is, where can I improve my gear and is proper use of CDs as simple as stacking them of trink procs and other raid CDs. (also gear wise I know I am way over the exp cap. I can't do much about without just getting some new piece of gear)
Hmmm no one has had any thoughts, guess I'll chime in a bit.

At a casual glance your armory looks to be in decent order. As for your gear you don't have the best itemized pieces for Ret out there certainly, your Haste is a bit low, and there's still a lot of upgrades for you waiting in LFR and a few waiting on the Valor vendors.

I'd advise getting a DMC Card to replace your Jade Chariot trinket if you're so inclined, Relic of Xuen is very solid although it is outshone by our ToT trinkets.

It really just looks like a case of gear holding you back a bit, the numbers you report aren't really terrible for the item level in my opinion.

As for CD's judging by your current armory you should just be blowing Guardian and Wings at the same time while trying to line them up as best you can with other procs, etc.

Not much help I'm afraid, but perhaps someone else will be along to better analyze your character.
I'm just gonna say that a lot of paladins don't tie in their execution sentence with their CD's correctly. One of the biggest things you could do is wait a little while(not too long) on execution sentence and use it only when you have all your CD's and/or procs active. Using it right when you use guardian isn't wise either, and it's better to wait until you have at least more than 10 stacks if you can't make 20 stacks before your +strength/Attack Power procs wear off.
Except your disgusting blue helmet, reforges look good, gems look good, trinkets look good. Priority wise: Inq > 5HP TV > ES > HoW > Exo > CS > Judge > 3-4HP TV (> SS), works well.
Two observations:

1. You've decided to go with the cheaper enchantment options on your weapon and bracers. If your goal is truly to maximize your DPS, you should reconsider this decision.

2. Your mining profession does not provide a perq for your DPS spec. You would be able to improve your DPS slightly by replacing that with a different profession. Typically, a profession will provide you with +320 to your primary stat, or an even better perq. For example, your other current profession of blacksmithing is providing you with +640 haste.

EDIT: I was somehow looking at an older cached copy of your character, so I have changed my observations to reflect the updated data.
ive been a paladin for a long time and end raided most of my time in wow but im feeling like either im just not set up right or if I am not doing something right

wanted some advice on paladins if someone could help me out
Xizma3lx#1513

im wondering about where my dps should be and if I can improve.
ive been a paladin for a long time and end raided most of my time in wow but im feeling like either im just not set up right or if I am not doing something right

wanted some advice on paladins if someone could help me out
Xizma3lx#1513

im wondering about where my dps should be and if I can improve.


IF you are not sarcastic, rotation is my 2c, u are geared, reforged, gemed perfectly.
Why 5tv?And is that just for the initial setcup or do you have to try 5'tv all the timd?
TV at 5 holy power: prioritize TV over builders, because you can't store any more
TV at 3-4 holy power: prioritize builders over TV, that Holy Power isn't going anywhere, make use of the stuff with cooldowns first

TV does the same damage whether or not you're at 5 Holy Power, so you don't have to go out of your way to use it only at 5. It's just higher-priority when you're at 5.
It doesn't seem like we're getting anywhere with this so I'll just post my mini-guide that I posted on another thread.

As a Ret Paladin, there's a lot of things you need to know, and when it all gets in your mind, you'll find that playing a Ret paladin and topping out DPS is actually really easy. A lot of people suggest that Ret Paladins aren't that great of DPS, but really if you know your class well enough, you can be a 490 Retadin and out DPS a 500+ Warlocks, DKs, Hunters, and even Mages.

Basic Abilities
As you probably know, Ret Paladin DPS isn't all that great at first. But the good news is, when you get to higher levels, you really get a lot of DPS boosts. The first step to keeping high DPS is generating Holy Power, which is obtained by using either Hammer of the Righteous/Crusader Strike, Exorcism, or Judgement. When you reach three Holy Power, use Templar's Verdict to majorly damage your target. Or if you're having to face 4 or more targets in one basic area, use Divine Storm instead. The most important ability would be Exorcism on cooldown or when Art of War occurs, as Exorcism does a fair amount of damage (At 70, it takes down over half of a common quest enemy's health). Lastly, always use Hammer of Wrath on cooldown when the target is below 20%, or when your Avenging Wrath is active. This is more important than Exorcism.

Buffs/Debuffs
The main buff to must keep applied to you and your raid is Blessings of Might. This is always the most important buff to keep applied to your group. However, this is not the most important to keep applied to yourself. You'll want to always, ALWAYS keep Seal of Truth active (For AoE, Seal of Righteousness), as this provides a major damage increase, and allows you to use your Judgement ability. When you get to bosses your highest damage bonus for boss fights is Avenging Wrath and Guardian of Ancient Kings. As I just stated, use these on strong enemies such as bosses. The last buff you must attain to yourself is Inquisition, which you must keep applied at 3 Holy Power, and refresh it every 23-30 seconds (at 3 Holy Power). This will upgrade your overall Holy Damage and Critical Strike chance, although Critical Strike does not help Paladins that much. As for the debuffs, the only thing you need to keep on your target is Physical Vulnerability (Judgement) and Censure (Seal of Truth DoT), but if you use Hammer of the Righteous, you may be able to keep Weakened Blows applied, weakening physical damage the target deals. But beware Forbearance, a debuff placed on targets affected by Lay on Hands, Hand of Protection or Divine Shield that prevents them from having those abilities used on them again for 60 seconds.

Heals
A lot of Ret Paladins can also come in handy by giving the healers a hand with a few strong heals, either on yourself or on another target. Ret Paladins, though, only have 3 heals (Excluding your three 90 talents). You have the basic Word of Glory first, which uses 1-3 Holy Power to heal yourself with, and is best used at 3 Holy Power obviously. The next is your basic Flash Heal, which you can keep at a 3 stacks of Selfless Healer by using Judgement as often as you can for a quick, free-of-mana heal (explained in talents). Your last one is Lay on Hands, the strongest heal you can have. Use it ONLY when it is really needed, because the 10 minute cooldown can be annoying.

Hands/Other Utilities
"Hands" are the Paladin-specific abilities that can provide a large amount of utility for you and your group. My personal favorite is Hand of Freedom, which will clear you of snare or root effects for a short time, similar to Emancipate without a lasting period. Next is Hand of Protection, which for 10 seconds will protect your target from all physical damage. This does NOT include magic attacks, ranged attacks (from hunter-like targets), and already-applied bleeding and poison debuffs. Another one of your Hands is the Hand of Salvation, which will make the target lose all threat for a short time, best used on targets gaining aggro that they shouldn't have. Your last Hand is Hand of Sacrifice, which will clear all harmful magic effects off the target and transfer 30% of the damage to you. Cannot self-cast. Your other abilities are Divine Protection, which will decrease the magic damage dealt to you by 40% (20% magic, 20% physical with glyph). Devotion Aura will keep your allies from being silenced and interrupted, as well as decrease magic damage taken by 20%.

Stuns, Interrupts and CCs
Your main stun is Hammer of Wrath, which will stun the target for 4 seconds (or with the level 30 talent Fist of Justice, 6 seconds with half the normal cooldown). Your get two CCs (excluding talent), Blinding Light and Turn Evil. You'll want to use Blinding Light to give you a moment to heal yourself when taken damage, but do not attack or the CC will break. Your other CC, Turn Evil, isn't the best. It will make an Undead, Aberration or Demon flee for up to 40 seconds. This does not include the Forsaken Horde race. Your interrupt, simple as any other, may only be used while the target is casting, and they won't be able to cast for another 4 seconds.

Talents
Level 15: Long Arm of the Law for a speed boost with Judgement OR Pursuit of Justice to give a passive speed boost, but decreases when Holy Power is used.
Level 30: Burden of Guilt, good in slowing your enemies without sacrificing damage by using Seal of Justice and only be at melee range to slow them OR Fist of Justice to make you use your stun more often and stun them for 133% of the time.
Level 45: Selfless Healer, keeps a good, strong and fast heal in your pocket when you need it!
Level 60: Clemency, will allow you to pop your "Hands" twice as often OR Unbreakable Spirit to make you use your Forbearance abilities more often!
Level 75: Divine Purpose will give you a chance for some serious damage or healing, good for questing or PvP. For raids and dungeons, use Sanctified Wrath or Avenging Wrath to increase your DPS by a lot for a period of time on boss fights.
Level 90: Execution Sentence will do a great DoT or HoT when you need it. For PvP use Holy Prism to damage a target to heal nearby others, or heal a friend to damage nearby enemies.

Glyphs
Major Glyphs: Templars Verdict (Always keep active, survival boost). Double Jeopardy (Damage boost when switching targets. Keep active). Mass Exorcism (Good AoE in melee fights. Change when needed). Harsh Words (Gives you something to use Holy Power on other than Inquisition in ranged fights. Replace when needed) Divine Storm (Survival boost, can AoE to self heal. Replace if needed)
Minor Glyphs: Righteous Retreat (Hearth faster, or even get away from PvP combat quickly). Falling Avenger (Reduces falling damage when Avenging Wrath is active)

Stats
Strength > Hit (7.5%) > Expertise (7.5%) > Haste > Mastery > Critical Strike

I hope that helps
that seems to be what im doing what should my numbers look like or does anyone have a good spreadsheet or chart I can go off. I had one in wrath when I hardcore raided but I just came back for mop and since deleted all my stuff
Ret is highly gear dependant. If you get lucky and win a 502/522 weapon from ToT, expect your damage to jump significantly. Other than that, yer, 17% Haste isn't near enough - you should try for 25% MINIMUM.

Consider getting tier bonuses, as ret's have been amazing this xpac, especially t15.

You'll probably end up doing better than me, who only does 85-90k and has no idea what I'm doing wrong.
what I'm doing wrong.


Glove enchant, bracer enchant, weapon enchant, weapon, expertise gem.
I noticed I got a thuderforged weap and a nice trinket and I went up 15K instantly I feel like I have been doing it almost right all the time just a small tweak and im on track.
I noticed I got a thuderforged weap and a nice trinket and I went up 15K instantly I feel like I have been doing it almost right all the time just a small tweak and im on track.


That is great! A little more haste will do you good. :)

Also notice you are using 2pc t15 but not 2pc14. If you don't have 4pc t15, the 2pc from t14 would give you a little more damage until you get 4pc t15.
Snippet of something I've posted elsewhere:

Saving Exorcism for certain things is not a bad idea, such as making sure the 6% damage increase effects the last tick of Execution Sentence and the extra damage of Guardian, but if you have a global that needs filling you should still use it anyway. Because of the way exorcism refreshes you should always use it, particularly when you are under 3HoPo.

The biggest detriment to retribution's damage is the empty globals - both those that arise naturally from not having any spells off cooldown and from the global spent casting Inquisition. Either Exorcism, HoW, or your lv90 tier talent has to fill the spare globals that arise between CS---Judgement----x----Inq/TV and that does not always occur. 1 empty global every 30 casts means instead of 30x100000 = 3mil we get 29x100000 = 2.9m which is a 3.33k dps loss. (given 1 spell per second, say in bloodlust mode) This means each time our Exo isn't refreshed when that empty global comes up we lose a fair bit of damage. sub-20% we do not have issues with empty globals, and when Sanctified Wrath is up we do not have issues with spare globals (as HoW can and should be every 2nd spell.

Note that THE BIGGEST loss in globals happens when you cast Judgement THEN CS instead of CS THEN Judgement. Why is this? 6 second cd followed by 4.5s cd means both will be on cooldown for the next 2 globals (3s) instead of CS coming up after 1 more spell. This leads to the dps loss mentioned above being amplified and takes someone who would be at 100k dps to far less - probably 80k~.

"5HP TV > HoW > Exo > CS > judge > 3/4HP TV."

Accurate, but not a complete analysis by any means.

Single Target: Seal of Truth

3HP Inquisition>5HPTV>HoW>Exo>CS>Judge(On add/range Fights use every 2nd Judge on a different target, refreshing Censure and with Double Jeopardy Glyph increasing Judge Damage>3/4HP TV>1-2 HP Inquisition (When Inq is running low and you have an empty Global)

With T15 2pc I'd suggest changing the priority to Exo>HoW when Exo debuff is not on the target, or as said above save it for the last ticks of Guardian/lv 90 talent as long as you have other fillers to use in place of it.

I haven't personally got the 4pc t15 yet but my expectations have it to where I'd bump CS up to first priority. Not entirely sure if it's worth it and it may end up destroying a fairly simple rotation though, so don't listen to me on that yet.

In AOE Situations: (2-15ish Targets) Seal of Truth (Important to note I've never had a situation in raids where SotR is worth using. If you're wondering about 15~ keep reading.)

3HP Inquisition>5HP Divine Storm>Exo(Glyphed)>Hammer of the Righteous(Refresh Censure on a Target with this each time)>Judgement(Refresh Censure on a new target or one at range,), do not use on the same target twice, Glyphed)>HoW(If you just used HotR)=4HP Divine Storm>HoW(If HotR is up after 4HP Divine Storm>3HP Divine Storm

Spreading Censure leads to a large damage increase over Seal of Righteousness. In general each new target SoR hits will give you 2-3k dps with bloodlust. Each new target that has 5 stacks of censure will give you 5k-7.5k. This isn't counting primary seal of truth damage, merely pointing out that each full stack of Censure you have does roughly the same damage as 3 additional targets with Seal of righteousness. I can personally spread censure on 4 targets extremely comfortably, though even more is possible I typically leave it at 4. This means that I'm doing more damage with Seal of Truth as long as there are 13 or fewer targets. On fights like Wind Lord you have targets with higher hp than others or targets you're prioritizing on the kill order. These are targets you should be putting Censure on. If you stack Censure say on 3 Blademasters and use SoT autoattacks and a full stack of Censure on Wind Lord you'll be doing the raid a huge favor. As the fight progresses Truth gets much better than SoR, and is even if you have all 9 adds and wind lord up at the same time.

Judgement, CS/HotR, and Autoattacks apply Seal of Truth's censure. Autoattacks are the only one which benefits from Seal of Truth's single hit damage. Judgement is a 6s CD base so even with 0 haste you can apply and keep up censure on 2 targets at range effectively. Using it this way also increases Judgement's damage from Double Jeopardy Glyph. Adding haste makes it where you can fit your reapplications into your normal rotation without losing out on AoE damage, or potentially keep Censure up on 3 targets. (Mine is currently a 4.2s~ cd without raid buffs. With raid buffs it's possible for fitting in 3 targets into your normal damage rotation). Judgement can be used on fights like Stone Dogs to apply and keep Censure on the target(s) furthest away. HotR (more than likely) or CS can be used to apply and keep Censure up on 3 targets, or maybe more with haste. 4.5s base cd, etc.

Try this on target dummies in either major city. There should be 4 lined up. Autoattack and HotR/CS the middle two and Judge the far two as it fits into your rotation. Use TV or DS as you please. Judgement each of the far target dummies in a rotation. It's a fairly simple and easily done example of how to censure multitarget. I may post a video of me doing this just for kicks later.

The main difficulty in multitarget Censure is keeping up with which adds need it to be refreshed, but this is a skill thing. If all adds are piled on top of each other you need a very good UI to keep up with it. Easiest way is to choose two targets that you're using Judgement to refresh, and 3 you use CS on. Autoattacking is incredibly difficult to keep up with but at skill cap you can also get additional targets with that. Personally I don't try for more than 4 targets, because there typically isn't any reason to. If you are fighting 8 adds where 1 has 80 million HP and the other 7 have 40 million hp you aren't doing your raid any favors by spreading censure to increase your own personal dps instead of blanket aoeing the 7 equal hp adds while single targetting the main guy down. You only kill the other adds slightly faster, nothing more, but that's not your problem. You want the highest dps possible.
As far as cooldown usage is concerned:

I consider lv 90 talents cooldowns, as you almost always use Exe Sentence single target and LH with 2+ targets. Sanctified Wrath will be used in all single target purposes. Holy Avenger will be significantly better the more targets you fight. On Wind Lord it's probably a fair toss up (no math to support either personally) because one phase is total AoE one is total single target. (and the single target has a significant damage boost) Personally, I choose Sanctified Wrath, and there's not really a fight yet I'd use Holy Avenger for. Divine Purpose as far as I recall is AMAZING IF and only IF you have procs to fill the empty globals discussed in my post above. This essentially adds 100k+ damage on a global where there would be 0 damage, but it's RNG and thus inconsistent. You want your damage to be as consistent as possible so you're always hitting phases at the same time. These scripted events become much easier - ret is already prone to ridiculously high burst and !@#$ty sustain - because of these empty globals and how good our cds are.

Going into a fight Exorcism, CS, Judge, 3HP Inq. What you do then changes. If your raid is bloodlusting immediately then you use a macro like so:

/cast Guardian of Ancient Kings
/cast Avenging Wrath
/use 13
/use 14

Do NOT macro in Potion of Mogu Power OR trinkets lower than 30s duration into this. (use 13, use 14 are your two trinket slots). Engineers must do similar things with synapse. You must use pots after 10 seconds or whenever your Guardian of the Ancient Kings reaches 20 stacks - if it reaches 20 stacks before 20s is left on your cds feel free to use it before 20s remaining hits.

Your rotation is always HoW---Basic Filler ----HoW ----TV for Single Target. For multitarget you want to continue with censure stacking instead of HoW spamming - thinking of Wind Lord in particular as it really is the only fight like this. On Adds in Empress or something similar you can do HoW---BF---HoW---DS on the target with the highest HP or the highest priority in kill order (thinking of Horridon Adds) How much you decide to focus on Pure DPS or how much you decide to focus on benefiting your raid is up to you - they are two very different approaches. (Focusing Horridon while others focus the adds down, for instance) Basic Filler is almost always going to be Exorcism, which will almost always be up after the 3 globals in between simply because of haste trinkets/bloodlust increasing your autoattack timer by so much. This keeps our t15 2pc up for the most part. When it's not CS/HotR will always be up by this point, cutting off judgement completely from our rotation.

Note that in Censure multidotting your Censure ticks do not occur more frequently with haste buffs (bloodlust, Trinkets) until you refresh your DoTs. Censure ticks 5 times with 0-9.99% haste, 6 times after 10% haste mark and so on, but this only applies when you actually let the debuff fall off. When it is refreshed before it falls off your haste will scale perfectly with your Censures. This means on fights like Wind Lord you may indeed want to cut off some HoWs to refresh censures on high priority targets.

15s trinkets should be used when you use Mogu Power pots. Prepotting is only situationally good for rets. Even in the best case scenario we only get 15s with Inquisition up, and we get very little uptime at 20 stacks of Guardian.

The last note I'll make here as far as CD usage is concerned is the damage you get from Guardian buff falling off. In order to have Inquisition up for this you have to refresh Inquisition at 2s duration to make the duration of Inquisition greater than 30s so it covers that damage. This is not worth starting a fight Exorcism---1HPInq---CS---Judge---hope for Exo---3HPINq---CDs, but it is notable as far as really getting maximum damage for if your raid is saving lust for 30s into the fight or the 2nd Guardian you get.

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