rogues, shadowcraft

Rogue
I have been having a hard way of deciding if i should follow along with shadowcraft, or i should try to find a better reforge. due to some fallacies. can someone explain what it is saying to me?
Be more specific, what fallacies?

I'd estimate 95% of the time, PEBCAK.
its saying reforge crit, when it said go into haste last time. then it says gem full agi, but told me mastery/agi last time.
You're assassination... you should be almost all mastery for reforging.
after mastery, which you can't reforge all into. let us come back to after ive done as much as i could.
Different gearsets will give you different stat values when put into Shadowcraft.
It is entirely possible that in certain gear set crit might have significantly more value than in other sets.
Ive been seeing the same thing,, Ive always reforged to haste. Now I'm seeing it telling me to fegore to mastery in some cases and even to gem agil/mast? just wondering if I should or what. Dose haste loose ep at a certain point? I'm also seeing it telling me to reforge into cri when it could go into mastery as well..
Reforging is more of a balance between certain stats than trying to reach a specific percentage. There are multiple ways to reforge your gear and obtain very similar dps output.

My advice? Use both Shadowcraft and AskMrRobot. I typically will reforge one or two pieces, refresh each and see where I stand. Once you reforge one piece, it may suggest you do something completely different.

Good luck!
reforging is hilarious right now. i could gem straight mastery and lose like 50 dps on shadowcraft.

stat weights changing...straight haste seeming to get DR now or something. at the end of the day we're talkin like 200-300 theoretical dps.
Stats scale synergistically, more haste makes mastery and crit more valuable and so on. What you are seeing isn't a "DR" or a "cap" on the value of haste it is as you gear toward haste you lose mastery which makes haste less valuable.

This has always been the case but in current gearing you can actually see this effect rearrange the stat order over a given gear set. ShadowCraft doesn't really handle this very well, for performance reasons the ShadowCraft reforger doesn't recompute EP values mid-reforge. You can find the balance point by hand, start by using the auto reforger to reforge to one gear extreme that yield's higher dps. From there change reforges from mastery to haste (or haste to crit if those are the two values its bouncing between) until the EP values of those two stats are the same.

Unsub: Everyone else in this thread is talking about assassination, for combat there were some modeling changes in 5.2 that added support for energy capping. This reduces the value of haste for most combat rogues to the point where agi may be better than 2 haste and/or mastery becomes flat better then haste. With 4pc T15 and RPPM items this will shift back toward haste.
as for shadowcraft i stopped using it as it would put me WAY below the hit/exp cap ..which makes no sense
Actually it does.

Mut loses very little (comparatively) for being below exp cap. A dodged Envenom will still trigger the Envenom buff and refresh SnD, almost all of the energy cost of a dodged attack is refunded, Mut doesn't need to juggle as many finishers as the other specs so dodged cp gen attacks aren't that hurtful, and I may be wrong about this but I'm fairly sure that poisons can still proc off a dodged attack.
My rogue is my 5th lvl90 alt which hit 90 like 2months ago,
started learning PvE (Assassination) at that point (after I hit 90).
So I'm probably still a noob. But I have read that mastery is better than haste or crit for Assassination(stat priority).

Today, for the first time, I tried sim'ing (shadowcraft) my rogue.
And the stat weights for me displayed as,
Haste Rating 1.128
Crit Rating 1.116
Mastery Rating 1.066

Haste and Crit above Mastery.
When I saw that, I decided to stay away from Shadowcraft.

I know stat weights differ depending on your gear, but haste and crit above mastery?
It tells me to reforge mastery to crit/haste...

Anyways, I'm having enough of that theorycrafting headache on my other toon, so I just decided to use the T14BiS stat weights provided by the sticky tutorial and input those in my reforge add-on.
I haven't messed with pve this patch, but I do remember last patch having to play with shadowcraft to figure out which simmed better. A few refreshes and you'll be guided in the right direction.... Not sure why it bugs sometimes, but it's better than Mr Robot and telling me I should equip cloth.
I know stat weights differ depending on your gear, but haste and crit above mastery?

Yes. It can happen. Particularly if you've got RPPM trinkets and/or the meta gem equipped.
04/18/2013 11:51 AMPosted by Rfeann
I know stat weights differ depending on your gear, but haste and crit above mastery?

Yes. It can happen. Particularly if you've got RPPM trinkets and/or the meta gem equipped.


Thx for the reply.

Yeah I recently got the LFR Rune of Re-Origination trinket, and replaced the LFR elegon trinket.
So I currently have the shadopan trinket + LFR Rune of Re-Origination.
But I don't have the legendary meta. I just finished collecting Sigils of Power today,( took 2 months... x( ) and started the 6k valor collecting =/

I guess thats why haste is above mastery (increase RPPM trinket proc rate?), but why crit?
Its Haste>Crit>Mastery.
Also after looking at some raiders armory, I haven't seen anyone reforge mastery to crit.
And those people have the RPPM trinket and the legendary meta.
Thats why it felt really odd that I was told to reforge out of mastery in to crit.

One more thing thats bothering me is, if the Re-Origination trinket checks the haste rating with SnD applied. (I remember reading that mastery raid buff isn't included in the snapshot)
If it does, if I reforge to haste too much, I might end up having more haste rating than mastery while I have SnD up (which I'll always have, unless I screw up).
Thus the trinket giving me a haste proc rather than a mastery proc.

Btw, currently my haste is 19.72% and mastery is 78.76%.
With SnD my melee haste is 67.61%.
You shouldn't use rune of reorigination. Its really bad, you are far better off with a regular elegon trinket or a relic of xuen or really almost anything else. I'm not entirely sure if an LFR elegon trinket will beat an LFR rune, I've never checked but I think it will.

As for what you are seeing it makes a lot of sense given rune of reorigination (which again you shouldn't use but for information's sake). Rune tends to prefer balanced stats because the more crit and haste you have the more powerful the proc is since it doubles those stat values.

Finally Rune works entire off of stat values so if you have 4K haste, 2K crit and 6K mastery a proc will give you 12K mastery. This does not depend on SnD or the mastery buff in the slightest.
Thx for your constructive explanation on the trinket and how it affected my stat weights,
and also the info on SnD not being taken to account for the trinket proc.

About the Re-Origination trinket,
at first I was so excited when I got a ToT LFR trinket,
but when looking the proc name up on Wowhead to track the proc on Tellmewhen,
I read the comments, which were mostly negative comments.

Thus searched this forum and also the MMO Champion forums too,
and could only find negative opinions on this trinket =/

I didn't know what to do, my previous trinket was an ilvl 476 elegon trinket,
so I just went with Re-Origination + shadopan.
But I was planning on replacing it when I get the tailsman or the juju trinket.
Well im feeling its off lately. It reforged me into 9.0+ Hit rating yesterday despite the fact thought reforging out of hit bring both expertise and hit to cap with room for mastery/crit. The reforges don't feel....optimal lately.
Just went to shadowcraft and hit auto reforge, it put you pretty much right at hit cap (2551 hit) and under expertise cap (2075 exp) just as you would expect based on the ep values.

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