As prot when to stop reforging haste

Paladin
Is there a point that I should stop reforging haste and start reforging into mastery or other mitigation stats? I have an ilvl of 495 and current melee haste is 11.05% while Spell haste is 22.52%.

My apologies if this was already been asked I didn't see it on the search so if im blind, MY BAD.
If you're using a haste build, the only time you should stop worrying about haste (after reaching the accuracy caps) is if you're getting killed before you can be healed, in which case you need more stamina. Otherwise, just keep stacking haste.
cool, ty for the heads up.
Are haste builds any good? I'm currently working on hit/exp cap ect.
Are haste builds any good? I'm currently working on hit/exp cap ect.

Yes. Haste is defensively very close to mastery, but also improves your damage output, so it's the preferred build currently.
CONTROL: MASTERY

Before we go further into this, let's explain why Expertise and Hit should be capped in the next two builds. Celyndrashad explains this nicely (and why I got the Expertise originally mixed up at 7.5 instead of 15%):

"Expertise does not lose mitigation value after 7.5%. Its worth just as much at 14% as at 5%. The reason that some of the older guides make a break point at 7.5% was that they were concerned with overall damage taken. Hitting 15% takes a TON of itemization and they felt that they would be taking too much overall damage. But that kinda defeats the entire purpose of the control build altogether."

Anyway, the formula you've been waiting for -

Stamina > Hit (7.5%) > Expertise (15%) > Mastery > Haste

This is an easier version of a Protection Paladin to play and doesn’t have as much spiky damage as the Total Avoidance formula. This helps with generating Holy Power and using SotR without worries of an accidental miss and loss of building up a charge of Holy Power in the process. Best of all, you Block, reduce physical damage, and heal a little more with this build than the Haste build that will be explained below.

This setup is pretty much your "middle-road" of sorts.

CONTROL: HASTE

Stamina > Hit (7.5%) > Expertise (15%) > Haste > Mastery

Just like the Control: Mastery, Hit should be 7.5% and Expertise should be capped at 15%. This one trades easy wheels / middle-of-the-road tank style for a slightly faster Judgment, Crusader Strike, Hammer of the Righteous, Holy Wrath, Consecration, and Hammer of Wrath thanks to Sanctity of Battle. The main point of this is to speed up Holy Power generation to help mitigate the damage in a (slightly) faster pace. This also yields a DPS increase in comparison to the Control: Mastery. Be very careful, though, as this build can be more prone to damage spikes than the Mastery build, but usually is less prone than the Total Avoidance build.
Very good question. One that I have recently considered as well, but could find no real answer to. Right now my unbuffed haste is close to 30%, and while the DPS is amazing, it often makes my 60ms latency feel like 200ms latency because the global cooldown is so fast now. I started noticing the "GCD lag" around the 25% haste mark. I still spam my abilities, but it makes me wonder if 25% is any more effective than 30% because of the questionable ability delay due to GCD lag.

If you're below 25% haste, I'd say it is definitely still worth stacking. Above that, you might want to "smartly" stack stamina. Definitely don't gem it though. You can get +750 Stamina from the Leatherworking enchant, and maybe swap to a stamina trinket like the +2200 Stamina one that drops off of Lei Shen.
If you're reaching a point where you can't attack faster due to latency, then yeah, haste's value is going to drop somewhat. It might be better to stop at that point and switch to mastery. However, in an ideal situation, you won't be capped at 25% (the first plateau is at 50%).
When do I stop stacking haste? When I pass beyond the Event Horizon and transcend into a higher state of being.

When everything starts coming at me in Matrix style bullet-time, and the blades and spells just stop midflight and I see all the enemies and the environments as flowing green streams of 1s and 0s.

All of that stuff. Or maybe what Natural said. That also seems reasonable.
lol
As prot when to stop reforging haste?


I don't understand the question
To echo some of the replies here, there is no realistic cap or plateau on Haste rating for Prot Paladins. Keep stackin'.

At this point, we're going to have some of the core functions of Haste nerfed before we scale to the point where we can't use any more or would want to look elsewhere. I'm specifically talking about Sacred Shield/vengeance scaling.

But a bit of a disclaimer: when looking at actual pieces of gear, Haste isn't THAT much of a slam-dunk, I tend not to downgrade pieces more than a half-tier for Haste rating (excluding the obvious weapons shields and trinkets - those have special significance as always!). Mastery really isn't much worse, and even Dodge/Parry/Strength aren't bad stats per se.

You should always be reforging with the idea of "How can I reach 7.5%hit/15%exp most efficiently and then get the most haste humanly possible?" in mind though.
Hey slight edit to Xargo's post, Mastery doesn't heal more, and does not give more mitigation than the Haste build. Its a decent build but for raw numbers haste comes out on top. That being said, I enjoy a little bit of mastery to help out with the burst dmg mechanic from some bosses, I.E Ji'Kun's Talon Rake ability or high stacks of Triple puncture from Horridon. If you want to actually see the numbers as to why this is the case, please visit this Protection Paladin theory crafting website http://www.sacredduty.net/ . Also for those who are interested there is an actual Haste cap of 18200, This will bring your crusader strike to 3 seconds, and judgement to 4 seconds, their respective caps. Any haste past this threshold does not increase holy power generation. The reason you don't see this number brought up is because its not likely that you will reach it. Anyways good luck out there tanks.
I'm at expertise and hit hard caps and with raid buffs I have 33% haste and 20% mastery, I feel like the flash.
As an FYI, Attack Speed buff isn't haste; it only affects auto-swings but it still lists on the character sheet as haste. Also, the true haste cap should be slightly higher than 18200 rating, unless that number takes latency into account. It being 425 rating = 1% haste, 18200 / 425 = 42.8% haste which leaves about ~.19s left on both the CS (4.5 / 1.428) and J (6 / 1.428) ACD, and ~.05s on the GCD (1.5 / 1.428). True haste hard cap is at 50%, or 21250 rating.

If you could point me exactly to where Theck is saying the hard cap on haste is 18200 and why it's only that much, I'd like to see it; running a search on SacredDuty.net for 18200 yielded no results.
At 12700 Haste rating your global cooldown is 1 second.
Meaning you don't get quite the same gains above that as you did below it.
That is a good point to stop stacking it if your priority is being solid instead of topping meters.

Also once you get into the 14000 haste range your rotation starts to erode since you won't have a full global for a filler between Crusader, Judge, Filler, Crusader. (depending on latency)
I think it is important to mention here that if you don't find yourself executing your abilities perfectly or near perfectly that Haste is probably not going to be the stat to reforge into.

While Theck's most recent blog post places Hastes above Mastery now even he states in an earlier post that Mastery or god forbid Dodge/Parry builds might be better for less experienced Protection Paladins.
89191291940:
At 12700 Haste rating your global cooldown is 1 second.


This is false. I have over 12000 haste rating as Ret, and I still see the difference between where I am with just gear and when I get Heroism on the GCD.

Flipping over to Prot, without changing gear or gaining any buffs, SotR's CD - which is the exact equivalent of a global since it is itself off the GCD and has no natural CD, is 1.17s. And that is within rounding tolerance of being accurate to my haste (1.5 GCD / 1.288 haste = 1.1645 SoB GCD).
Yeah, it takes 50% haste to reduce the gcd to 1 second, so it will be the same 21250 that Grognard mentioned before.
Related question: After reaching hit and expertise caps is there a base level of stam or mastery to aim for before stacking haste? This toon is an alt (my main is a druid tank). I have been getting some criticism regarding my gear and gemming. I generally assume most of that is just uninformed masses in lfr/lfd but I do like to make sure I am playing my character as optimally as possible.

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