Plausible Counter, or No?

Rogue
Ok, I'm not trying to say that Rogues are OP. Honestly, I think all the classes are good if played properly. Each class has a semi-counter balance as well... Blizzard did get rid of a hard counter for each class, or so they say. So I'm coming to the Rogue forums to try and figure out what I am doing wrong here.

Note 1 - I am talking about my DK, who is currently geared in mainly Season 13, Malevolent Gear. I do have a few pieces of gear that are season 12, or contender's gear from back when MoP first came out. So this may just be purely a "You're being massively outgeared" issue.

Ok, so I'm running along somewheres... Going from one place to the next. Next thing I know, I get sapped... Now I know better than to attempt to trinket or Icebound Fort a sap, so I will just wait it out. And from what I've remembered from in the past, I do not want to trinket or Icebound the next stun either, since it is the shorter of the two stuns that follow sap.

That second stun pops up, and I will normally Icebound Fort that one. Saving my Trinket for the long Disorientation that I may possibly encounter soon. However, to note, at this point... I am normally somehow already at approximately 30-40% of my total health. So as a Frost DK, I have to pop my ghoul and then hit Death Pact. This will bring me back up to approximately 75% of my health.

Now from here, if I am lucky and this was in the middle of a BG, and they for some reason don't have their Vanish, and/or preperation, up then I can normally maul the rogue and win. I've even encountered some rogues who put up a good fight at this point and get me close, but I still normally take them, unless -ALL- of my Cooldowns were on CD, and I couldn't death pact.

Most of the time though, what I encounter is that the rogue -does- have the vanish up, and will immediately vanish. A few seconds later, and I'm getting ready to mount up, because I missed bringing them out of stealth with diseases or Death and Decay. I will get attacked again, and again get dropped from approximately 75-85% of my health to 10-20% of my health. Again, I will wait for the second stun, the 7 second one to pop, and I will hit my trinket. Now if I'm -really- lucky, my Anti-Magic shell will be up, and I will be able to blow it, which I believe knocks off the poisons that I have on me. in which case, the fight will get prolonged for just a moment as I pop to Blood Presense and Death Strike. However, 100% of the time, when I do this... I'm still TOO low in health to recover and will get killed.

So it comes down to this.... Am I doing something wrong? Should I save my anti-magic shell and/or Icebound Fort? Should I switch up the trinket and Icebound Fort? I just feel as if it is nuts that if I don't have any of my cooldowns or my trinket up, that I can go from 100% to death in the first 2 -real- stuns a Rogue puts out. I don't have a chance to even turn around and smack at them for a moment, or put up a disease so they come out of stealth when they vanish, so that someone else can kill them.

I'm not saying that I should be able to kill a rogue -everytime-, but I don't think a rogue should be able to kill ME everytime. It feels as if the only time I can kill a rogue is when ALL of my cooldowns are up, -AND- all of their cooldowns are on CD.
. And from what I've remembered from in the past, I do not want to trinket or Icebound the next stun either, since it is the shorter of the two stuns that follow sap.


Hm?

Assuming the next stun is a CS

CS= 4sec

Then KS would come next...but its DRed and would actually be shorter (unless my math is wrong)

Just something I found odd.
Conversion.

The end.

Not kidding either. If you can manage your Runic Power properly, a rogue will have a tough time punching through it after their opener.

Speaking of opener, you'll want to use some form of a CD on it. If you take it unmitigated, you'll be hurting.

Look at it this way, the most damage a rogue will put out is in those 3-8 seconds following stealth. After that their damage falls of significantly. You'll want to utilize IBF and trinket whenever possible to avoid those openers.

One last thing, if you find yourself hurting for RP after a rogue vanishes, you should be able to hit them with Blood Boil so long as they're still derping within range of it, and it will give you 20(?) RP.
Bagofsticks, thanks a ton... I just realized I've been doing 1 thing wrong entirely... And it's solely based on what you said. My IBF is not a single "Pop out of this", it gives me immunity to stuns for a few seconds, which means I can pop it on the fast stun, instead of waiting through it. That is where most of the dmg seems to come out anyways. Right in that first stun, and at the beginning of the one right after it. So if I pop my IBF sooner, but not in the sap.... Then I should be good to go, and it will likely prevent me from taking -SO- much dmg. Again, thanks a TON!
I usually trinket the first Cheap Shot. All Cheap Shots and Kidney Shots for the next 20 seconds are on really short DR. Do whatever it takes to survive that initial burst, get some dot's on him and don't panic. Rogues are the squishiest class in the game and can be easily beaten by forcing cool downs.
04/17/2013 11:38 AMPosted by Tulok
All Cheap Shots and Kidney Shots for the next 20 seconds are on really short DR.


This. Don't trinket the "second" stun unless it's been over 15 seconds from the end of the first. The DR can be applied for up to around 20 seconds (I forget the exact number) because of how often the sever looks at a character's DR "timer".

edit: Keep it up. I do pretty well against rogues on my daughter's DK (UH). Just remember many of us have been playing the class for years and don't need to think much about what we're doing. I've found that 5 years of just mashing the (mostly) same buttons helps me play better than newer, more naturally skilled players.

: )
With Desecrated Ground, IBF and your trink, you've got plenty of stun breaks. A Rogue cannot stand toe to toe with you when you have gear. Get your DK AIDS rolling and start pounding on him. He'll cloak and run, but you've got Conversion. When he reopens, get out of it again and start pounding some more. He'll probably try to run again, this time likely w/o Cloak of Shadows. Bring him back when he comes out of stealth, continue pounding.

Rogues can't fight you head to head. They need control to kill you. Don't let them have control and punish them when they're on you. Rogue has traditionally had a significant advantage over DKs in heads up situations, but right now DK has as good of a chance as they've had in years.

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