I Overhauled Profession Ideas Take a Look

Professions
right church wrong pue. the only thing wrong with the professions system as it stands anything before cata is a royal pain to try to level anymore. even wraith levels have gotten hard to get mats for. and its really hard to level prfessions from 1 on dks when you have to go back to old content and hope to find mats for the professions.
I'm in complete agreement with everything Consortium and Higeki have said.

PS: Higeki had never been a troll. Just because someone disagrees with you OP doesn't make them a troll.
For Higeki:
By others statements I'm one of the most respected posters on this entire forum (along with wonderful insightful folks like Consortium, Zachfu, Jozie (sniffles), Phopaw and a number of others. I spend several hours a week posting to help other players. My absolute disagreement with your post hardly makes me a troll.

I am not concerned about your fan base and no you will not have to farm for materials there are many other who do that already and you should know this by being an alchemist and inscription you purchase mats from auction house as you can do as well on auction house

For Icpitl:
Production will still have a place to generate money by putting out crafts as which are useable by all once gear is upgraded it becomes less desirable till you get new gear which is common. Milling goes to herbalism. This is so you can have the method of selling raw herbs or its extract on auction house. One profession uses one morethan others.

Is this portion inscription has absorbed a lot of alchemy production to craft reagents for craft much like other productions and enhancement profession which sadly i did not provide as i was putting a baseline idea down and left tweaking for questioners to help make a final piece

I wanted to add a different personalisation to each profession. To illustrate, the look of tier 6 normal mode you can upgrade to tier 6 heroic mode, the visual are different. Each profession could add better looking effects supported by their proper profession

I should go back and fix that statement i made, there is potential to make money in both this offers those who do like to farm incentives and those who like to do dailies or raid the ability to purchase said gathered products

If you like to craft and make gold then this isnt a bad thing for you. This would maximize you desire to craft and make money

For Nijel:
All profession will equally have the ability to generate money in this model trasmute would be either in the miner or blacksmith and wont need a cooldown as metallurgy coincides.

Bonuses exist in production take another look

For Consortium:
Understand this, questions and constructive critscism work better than nonsensical tyrades

breakdown of materials add to crafting production element, skinning offers different/another breakdown

Decompose works like D/E but it can gather materials from items you have on hand as in food, gear, gems etc, break down to appropriate materials vendor trash breaks down into stacks so it doesnt clutter bag space. Still vendor trash though.

At low levels it will not require as much materials as it would at max profession level

In my model that would not be a good idea because alchemy has merged with inscription and to change the gear effects it requires mats from all types of gathering. This was done so there is no wrong answer in choosing a profession.

There are two different profession types, Production and Enhancement. Production specialise in gear and Enhancement specialise enchantment

Please read it again
Normaan:
For Icpitl:
Production will still have a place to generate money by putting out crafts as which are useable by all once gear is upgraded it becomes less desirable till you get new gear which is common. Milling goes to herbalism. This is so you can have the method of selling raw herbs or its extract on auction house. One profession uses one morethan others.

I think most herbalists would decide to just sell the herbs, as they've always done, and not mill them, unless it was very lucrative to do so. You'd end up with either a shortage of pigments, or very expensive pigments, and people wouldn't be able to get their glyphs.

And I still don't understand the rationale behind shifting so much to gathering professions. It seems like you want more people to focus on gathering rather than crafting, but you haven't explained why.
In my model all professions would require materials from all. Gathering profession can mill it to create multiple products to sell because each profession will need it at high level.

You are looking at this like making changes. Dont, look at this like a replacement just like what happened to talents. They are not the same as they were
There might be a good idea (staking a claim) in there but the absolutely awful ideas far outweigh any merit your post might have had. Basically you're taking away the perks of several professions, the moneymakers of others and making a hodgepodge of terribleness. All for no other reason than you want change. The professions are not perfectly balanced right now but each of them has some merit. In your model, none of them would.

While the professions might need an update (and several have gotten them or will have them in the next patch) you are changing things that work perfectly well now into a far inferior model.

Why would you do this? What in the world makes you think that these profession changes are good ideas?

I need a wall of NO! just for this post.


For Shadowdamna:

Most of this post she made has nonsense rhetoric. Instead of trying to be amusing, putting out points of view to counter the model. However using useless words to illicit a negative response from me to discredit is trolling.

Her points without nonsense in it which would not make it a troll

[quote="87277381697"]There might be a good idea (staking a claim) in there. Basically you're taking away the perks of several professions, the moneymakers. The professions are not perfectly balanced right now but each of them has some merit. In your model, none of them would.

While the professions might need an update (and several have gotten them or will have them in the next patch) you are changing things that work perfectly well now.[quote]
Normaan, when everybody is saying much the same thing to you, it's time to look inward, and not project on others.
You have never answered my question: Why would you do that?

You've also ignored it when it was asked by Icpitl, Nijel and Consortium amongst others.

Why are you trying to change something, that as Dakion said (in a more politically correct manner admittedly), is not broke and works well? Not perfectly...but well. It's not broken. It might be a bit scuffed but that's it. Even then, the scuffed ones have been getting a shine.

Professions work, and for the most part, work well. Dakion was correct in saying that it's one of the most balanced aspects of the game. No player is forced into doing them in a manner they dislike. They are not necessary to advance, but for many of us, they are one of our favorite parts of the game. They are a complete mini-game within the game.

So again I ask you, why do you want them changed?
So again I ask you, why do you want them changed?


Because some people believe they can reinvent the wheel rather than simply improve upon it. Normaan, for some reason, thinks that scrapping the entire system and replacing it with his ill thought out system is a wiser move than doing as Blizzard does now which is keep what's good and fix that which needs fixing. Most of are sure he's wrong.

People lose their minds if a pattern doesn't make it off the PTR; I can't even imagine the uproar on these forums if Blizzard decided to implement changes anywhere near as radical as he's proposing.
04/28/2013 05:43 PMPosted by Higeki
Why would you do this? What in the world makes you think that these profession changes are good ideas?


and if you read it

There has been 4 expansions since the game has came out each one varying in changes from talent system, gameplay, pvp, instances, scenery to city and zone revamps and yet the one thing that flew by with minimal changes has been profession.


Explain to the entire player base why this is a bad idea? Explain to Latin America, European, and American servers why this idea is harmful to the game using outline data that i put forth.

04/29/2013 12:42 AMPosted by Higeki
By others statements I'm one of the most respected posters on this entire forum (along with wonderful insightful folks like Consortium, Zachfu, Jozie (sniffles), Phopaw and a number of others. I spend several hours a week posting to help other players. My absolute disagreement with your post hardly makes me a troll.


/golfclap

So like minded individuals respect you. Do you always chastise people who don't follow your union ideals?

There might be a good idea (staking a claim) in there but the absolutely awful ideas far outweigh any merit your post might have had. Basically you're taking away the perks of several professions, the moneymakers of others and making a hodgepodge of terribleness. All for no other reason than you want change. The professions are not perfectly balanced right now but each of them has some merit. In your model, none of them would. While the professions might need an update (and several have gotten them or will have them in the next patch) you are changing things that work perfectly well now into a far inferior model. Why would you do this? What in the world makes you think that these profession changes are good ideas? I need a wall of NO! just for this post.


your quote is filled with trolling let me fix it so you understand what makes it non-trolling

There might be a good idea here, Staking a Claim, but i feel the rest isn't. You are removing perks and profitability of the profession system in order to create change. Although i believe the profession, as is, aren't balanced each one does provide merit. There may be some improvements to the current system and some are coming next patch. In your model i feel they would no longer. Why is this a good idea?

A) Each profession can still put out gear and enchantments so your moneymaking complaint is nullified.

B) Each profession creates their own perk so again, nullified

Now that i have addressed you, hopefully for the final time, you can leave this post and let other who have viewed it and liked the idea to make comments, suggestions, and questions for the benefit of the proposed idea free from your scrutiny. Thank you
No one liked your post. I haven't seen one person that liked it. I have seen some that don't hate it as much as I do but that's hardly the same thing as liking it.

Professions work. They do not need to be changed in large ways. Tweaks are coming to a number of the professions in much the same manner that leveling Blacksmithing has been addressed. Smoothing out the leveling experience after four expansions is a good change to this aspect of the game. It's not "throwing out the baby with the bathwater." You don't want change because things are not working. You want change for the sake of change and that is never a good reason.

I agree that I do not like your post and I find most of your ideas abhorent. I am in complete disagreement with your reasoning for almost every change. That still does not make me a troll. Perhaps I could be more politically correct in my vapid disagreement with your ideas, but honestly, I hate them so much I want to get across my hatred. A troll would do a lot more than express accute disagreement. A troll would attack you personally and I have not done that. I don't know you. I simply disagree with what you have written.

I think your ideas are, for the most part, terrible. A terrible idea doesn't get any better if I keep posting how bad it is and how ill thought and unnecessary it is. We all know I hate it and we both know that I am not alone in my dislike.
04/30/2013 04:38 PMPosted by Normaan
There has been 4 expansions since the game has came out each one varying in changes from talent system, gameplay, pvp, instances, scenery to city and zone revamps and yet the one thing that flew by with minimal changes has been profession.


Change just for the sake of change is the worst kind of change. This isn't like dyeing your hair or getting a new nipple piercing.
There has been 4 expansions since the game has came out each one varying in changes from talent system, gameplay, pvp, instances, scenery to city and zone revamps and yet the one thing that flew by with minimal changes has been profession.

Explain to the entire player base why this is a bad idea? Explain to Latin America, European, and American servers why this idea is harmful to the game using outline data that i put forth.


No matter how many times i read this it still makes no sense as a rationale for the why!

your quote is filled with trolling let me fix it so you understand what makes it non-trolling


Nobody is trolling you, they are merely disagreeing. Generally anyone I see adopting these tactics to avoid discussing the deficiencies in their viewpoint is immediately a black mark against them.

You repeat your argument about the transmutes not being needed for the gold making, but I ask again. The ability to do things like create gems from spirits, sha crystals from shards. to create gems via alchemy and all the other various transmute type recipes serve a valuable purpose even when they are not quite profitable enough to worthwhile. They act as a backstop on values. But you would throw them away?

Personally I complained about the talent changes in beta, I complained about the talent changes when they went live and I still think its a worse design them they had. But feel free to use the talent changes as a justification for yours.
Change just for the sake of change is the worst kind of change. This isn't like dyeing your hair or getting a new nipple piercing.


Best thing I've read all day.
This is a good idea. If you do not wish to farm you do not have to many others will do so to make money. Enchant-like bonuses can still be sold as well as gear. Everyone can work on their gear that they acquire by upgrading it from their production profession or upgrade it with their class specific enchant-like twist. They will get the option to alter the color and designing features of gear as production or color and designing of enchant like effects pending on their enchantment profession. Those are the reasons this is a good idea. No i will not log on alts and support the positive
04/30/2013 06:41 PMPosted by Normaan
This is a good idea.


http://media.tumblr.com/3aa531f2d37a6fbf141c2936b0e1ab91/tumblr_inline_mjkw9sQHdX1qz4rgp.jpg
Normaan:
Explain to Latin America, European, and American servers why this idea is harmful to the game using outline data that i put forth.

But that's what everyone in the thread has been doing.

(Except for the part about the outline data; I don't really understand what you mean there.)

Normaan:
A) Each profession can still put out gear and enchantments so your moneymaking complaint is nullified.

Being able to produce something isn't enough to be profitable. Currently, every profession can produce a whole host of items, nearly all of which are worthless. In order for a profession to be profitable, it has to be able to produce something that people will buy.
Normaan, you clearly put a lot of thought into this. I will try to respond to each point on which I have an opinion or general thoughts.

Gathering Professions:
(stake a claim)- I'm not certain about this one. On one hand, there have been times when I got interrupted or had someone actually steal a resource directly out from under me. On the other hand, I know there are players who would do everything in their power to grief others. Perhaps you can expand upon the details on this.
1. For how long would this staked claim last?
2. What if your combat lasts more than the period of the claim?
3. Is there a cooldown period in between ability to stake claims?
I have high latency & 2-3 second upload delay. People with faster connections constantly take things out from under me because of this. Would this also apply to skinning? I've had people follow me around & start skinning my corpses before my game registered that I had finished looting.
A first dibs sort of thing would be nice on mobs that can be herbed/mined/skinned. It might be similar to the loot system in EverQuest where the corpse becomes available for others to loot after awhile. Another option would be to have the player actively choose to release the corpse for plundering.
But back to the stake a claim, I honestly think there would be too much abuse on this one. There are people who swim over fishing bobbers to stop them from being clicked. The amount of fighting and griping if this was brought in would just increase and I'm sure there would be many posts on the forums griping about it. It is a cool idea and I wish that some unscrupulous players wouldn't ruin it, but I think the bad apples would ruin it for the people who would use it properly.
Another thought is that the coding would have to ensure that only someone who actually has the appropriate trade skill and level could stake a claim on something. Perhaps it could require that the person actually try to gather the node before they can stake a claim. I know this may be difficult for people who have to deal with mobs in combat-- but if they make an effort to gather and get interrupted *maybe* I could see this working. I'm still not sure though.

(passive) bonuses removed? I'm not quite sure what you are suggesting here. Are you saying that all passive bonuses should be taken away from players? Do you mean bonuses from enchants on gear and such? If so, I vote "No". I say if someone took the time to get a piece of gear that has passive bonuses, they should get to keep them. Or did you mean something else?

Mining Hmm.. I actually do like the idea of miners being able to prospect ore. If they can crack open a node to get the ore out in the first place, I think it makes sense that they could extract gems and powder from ore. Speaking of the powder, it would be nice if the powder could be used like leather scraps-- certain amounts could be melted together to create either a straight up bar or smaller amounts could make nuggets and the nuggets could be combined to make bars. It would be cool if bars could be broken down to nuggets for items that require smaller amounts of the material.
I think the only obstacle to this is that the developers probably intended things this way so that jewelcrafters would be necessary. Now, if they made it so that jewelcrafters could smelt ore, that would be a nice trade off. Enchanters obviously work with the metal in a way that would probably require heat and some melting.

Skinning I do like this idea. There were times when I wanted to break down higher level skins to lower ones. And also, this is where I should have mentioned the "first dibs" on skinning so that jerks with faster connections can't just come along and steal all of the corpses out from under people who are killing for skins. Also, it would be nice if there was some way to encourage sharing during dungeons so that one person doesn't just take all of the skins when there are other players who want to skin. Sure that can be discussed among the group, but some players just don't care and like to ninja. I don't think that is grounds for kicking someone out of a group as it can take too long to find a replacement sometimes.

Herbalism I'm not sure on milling of herbs. I could see a valid reason for miners to be able to prospect and JCers to smelt. But this is different bc herbalism is basically just picking flowers. I can't figure out what Inscriptionists would be able to do in exchange. They already took a hit from glyphs being in lower demand.

Decompose perhaps a better term might be "deconstruct". It reminds me of something in SWTOR where people can reverse engineer items to regain materials as well as to get a chance to learn a better schematic/pattern.
(had to abridge so this would fit-- to be continued)
Production Professions:
(Additional Resources) - ugh. I fully admit that this one would be highly annoying. Not just because of the need to gather more materials, but because of the inventory space used. Now, one thing that might make this better is if there are crafting areas where there is something akin to a bank that stores only crafting materials and you could retrieve the necessary materials. Another option would be to have a portable storage thing (much like the portable anvil) that you could open to retrieve materials. But, what if you don't have enough space in your inventory for all of that? I know-- people will say get more bags and get rid of stuff... But the inventory space issue is something to consider. Plus some of the recipes are already complex enough as it is. It can be daunting. Maybe another option would be to have kits within a bag that could hold crafting materials? I don't know.

(Personalize) I know in EverQuest they had the ability to get prismatic dye and to choose colors for armor and then use the dye on the armor (said armor could be recolored as many times as a person wanted so long as they had the dye). But it would be nice if there was some dye removing agent to restore the item to its original color. I do think the coloring should transfer when transmogrified. Now, the problem I see with this is that Blizzard would have to make skins for each mesh in all of the available colors.

(Improvement) Isn't there already an option to upgrade gear in exchange for justice points or something? Or are you talking about something similar to the system where a crafter can have a random chance of making a better quality item (where say a Perfect gem is made by jewelcrafters) and that once the crafter makes the improved version, they get the plans/recipe/schematics in their crafting list? Or do you mean it is sort of like having an item enchanted where stats are boosted in exchange for mats? How about account bound instead of soulbound for some items?

Tailor my main is a tailor and I have to say "no" to crafting staves and objects made out of materials other than cloth. In the scheme of how crafting works, the mechanics of crafting a weapon vs sewing something in cloth are different. Just because I can handstitch a seam, doesn't mean I could carve or whittle wood. Now, if you were talking about making other things out of cloth, that would be different. I confess that I am one of the (probably annoying) people who likes the idea of players being able to have homes/houses (and I don't mean like Sunsong Ranch) that can be decorated to an extent. The ability to make rugs, curtains, linens, and tapestries would be cool. Maybe they could even add some daily quests where x npc needs a certain number of blue curtains and you have to gather the mats or use kits and combine them to craft things and then turn them in for rep and gold. (Why is it that jewelcrafters get daily quests but not tailors, enchanters, skinners, leatherworkers, blacksmiths, engineers, alchemists, inscriptionists, miners, and herbalists?). Maybe tailors could learn to make cloth scraps into something useful.

Leatherworking Again, I have to say "no" to making daggers, bows, etc since they are not made of leather. I can maybe see adding "leather grips" to some weapons which give them some sort of bonus. (Speaking of bows, anyone else remember Fletching from EverQuest?)

Blacksmithing Why take away these abilities? I don't understand. Daggers need to have the blades pounded and honed. socketing seems like something a blacksmith could do to modify gear. I don't think it is logical to take these away from blacksmiths and have say a tailor make a knife. It does not compute. Now, maybe a jewelcrafter could embellish a piece of gear to add sockets or something. I don't know. I was going to suggest having leatherworkers make sockets for leather armor and jc/bs make sockets for mail and plate, but then I realized that a socket would have to be metal to properly hold a gem.

Product Engineering Is this supposed to be something other than the Engineering tradeskill? This one reminds me of Tinkering from EQ. I think that existing engineering is fine. I think it would be nice if engineers could add sockets for cogwheels to gear. I don't recall if that is currently an option. Maybe they could make mechanical boats that players can use to travel across bodies of water and fish from (an alternative to rafts). Or hovering vehicles that can carry multiple people (up to 2 or 3) and hover over water and land-- over water people could fish from it. I'm also throwing in the golden mechanical owl battle pet idea. I really liked the original Clash of the Titans. Bubo ftw!
(continued again)
Enhancing Professions
This would be a major slap in the face to people who individually leveled up Alchemy. Do I wish they would let us learn more than two major trade skills? Yes. But I don't think any trade skill should be totally eliminated. That would just be unfair to the players who already worked so hard at it. If anything, I think that enchanting would be a closer match for inscription- but I still don't think they should be merged. I remember some rogues being upset about poisonmaking being taken away. (I get that you don't want to take it away completely, but it still might prove to be too complicated). To merge them would create the need for too many mats and have too many recipes for a single skill. It would also mean that some recipes would likely be lost. Also, since alchemy is already split up into flasks and potions, how would you propose integrating inscription? Would players have to choose a specialization? If so, what about people who have both Alchemy and Inscription already?

I don't see a need to change the name of Jewelcrafting. For one, it is easier to ask for a JC in trade chat. A person asking for an Enc would get confused with searching for an Enchanter. So this one would just complicate things unneccessarily.

(Additioanl Resources) again, saying "no" because of inventory problems already mentioned.

(Enhance Personalize) My first thought was of how in EQ there was a Brewing profession. It yielded drinks, dyes, and tanins. It's pretty much the equivalent of alchemy. Since inscriptionists already make dye, I could see that dye being used to color armor (that is if Blizzard was willing to make the armor sets in different colors). See my previous statements on gear dying.

(Encrest, Enchant, Scribe, Socket) We already have these within our regular tradeskills. Now, I could see possibly adding more enchancement abilities to existing tradeskills. I forget, but can tailors attach embroidered thread to a person's gear via No Trade option in Trade window? Speaking of which, wouldn't it be cool if a person could put the mats for an object in the Trade Window and the mats would be used by the enchanter/enhancer to create the enchantment and place it on the gear piece in "No Trade"? Until both parties click "Accept" the used materials would only be grayed out and would be returned to the owner if Trade is canceled. It would be nice if some of the enhanced gear could be bound to account.

Enchanting for some reason I remembered the ability in EQ (yes, I reference that one a lot-- it was the first MMORPG I ever played) there was an ability to Imbue gems and such. I think it would be interesting if enchanters could just imbue some things. Can enchanters currently enchant necks, rings, and trinkets? I don't recall. I actually like them being able to enchant all sorts of things. I will have to do some more thinking on this one.

Encresting I say "no" to this change. One of the good things about JC is being able to make rings, neck items, and trinkets. Taking away those abilities would seriously anger those of us who leveled up JC on characters. What you are describing for this sounds similar to adding gems to sockets.

Inscription Again, I say "no" to this one. I believe I've already explained why above.

Enhance Engineering This makes me think you want to split up engineering into two separate trade skills. I want to keep Engineering together and not split it up. Especially since we can't seem to have more than 2 main professions and I don't know if Blizzard will ever change that.

I realize you didn't mention fishing and that made me think of fileting fish and getting the bones as well as meat. And that made me think of the Scavenging ability from SWG and I was thinking that scavenging could be an interesting gathering skill that could get meat, bones, and skin. I sort of wouldn't mind skinning being like scavenging. bones could be used for cooking and jewelcrafting (jc could craft bones into items and maybe even make needles to give to tailors to enchance the items they make). But I realize that would be more complicated and don't know if something like that should be added.

Some general thoughts: Would you incorporate Sunsong farming in any way since people with Pandaria can plant things? I personally think it would be neat if there could be some sort of farming where lower level players could plant things in existing farms either inside or just outside of the major cities. But again, this may prove to be too complicated.

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