My Prot Damage is terrible.

Paladin
So, about a few weeks ago my guild lost one of their tanks, so I decided to work on a prot set for my OS, just in case they needed me to tank.

And BOOM! whattya know, I love it, Prot is awesome. My biggest issue is gemming properly, I've seen numerous different guides all suggesting different variations of gemming and stat priority.

So basically I have no clue which stat priority I should be using and how to gem, and in turn my damage is practically abysmal and just doing dailies is an endeavor.
If you're main spec ret why would you ever consider doing dailies as prot? Prot needs vengeance to do decent damage.
Maybe you missed it but the Protection spec is about damage mitigation not damage dealing. That's the focus of the Retribution spec.
Maybe you missed it but the Protection spec is about damage mitigation not damage dealing. That's the focus of the Retribution spec.


I know it is, it's just that I've seen tanks pull upwards to 50k before is all. And I can barely scratch 20.

04/26/2013 10:50 AMPosted by Cayse
If you're main spec ret why would you ever consider doing dailies as prot?


Because I enjoy prot.
Prot needs vengeance to do decent damage.

doing dailys in prot set won't give you much damage. reason youre doing a lot more damage in raids is due to vengeance being a hell of a lot over the course of a raid boss fight rather than random mobs that hit for nothing
Get better gear, stop gemming mastery and start gemming haste. Hit 7.5%, Expertise 15%, then start gemming and reforging haste and hitting the right buttons.
If you want to do more damage while doing dailies just stay in your ret set. Still isnt going to be as fast as ret at killing things but thats the only thought i have as to making dailies faster.
04/26/2013 10:56 AMPosted by Stevano
Maybe you missed it but the Protection spec is about damage mitigation not damage dealing. That's the focus of the Retribution spec.


I know it is, it's just that I've seen tanks pull upwards to 50k before is all. And I can barely scratch 20.


50k while questing?
Soooo I just tried some 3s in prot for fun, was actually pretty funny. I bet those healers were getting pretty annoyed. But idk, I feel like some healers could out dps me if they tried. I wish it was viable, my favorite pally spec. Any ideas on how to do as much damage as possible?

I mean I feel like if I seriously wanted to try this I could stack pvp power and haste, but im not sure it would do much for the damage. It was fun though.
The trick to doing dailies as prot is to pull EVERYTHING in sight, least that way you get a bit of Vengeance.

Stat priority is

Hit to 7.5%
Exp to 15%

then you go either Haste or Mastery.

Haste reduces the CD on our abilities for faster HoPo generation for more SotR's.
Mastery gives you stronger SotR's and WoG's.

Haste is generally accepted as the better build since it tends to smooth out your damage intake and provides a significant DPS gain.
Also, remember most of our DPS is tied directly to our weapon DPS. When I upgraded my The Planar Edge, Reborn to Black Planar Edge, Reborn the +300 DPS improved my overall output much greater proportionally than any thing I'd done to improve stats.
Also, remember most of our DPS is tied directly to our weapon DPS. When I upgraded my The Planar Edge, Reborn to Black Planar Edge, Reborn the +300 DPS improved my overall output much greater proportionally than any thing I'd done to improve stats.

Our damage is barely tied to weapon dps at all. It's 90+% AP based, only CS/melee/HotR works from weapon damage and even then AP is almost as large (Larger in raids) a part of net CS damage.

Honestly very little will help your damage during dailies. Paladins are far and away the worse tanks in terms of low veng dps. We scale incredibly well with haste though.
So, I've been having the same issues with Prot dps as the OP. Here are some points that run through my head to justify the low DPS Blizz has decided to give Prot Pallies.

1) I would say Battle Healer is the only way a tank can help heal the raid, and for the most part that's correct, but DKs also have Blood Worms (which got suuuuper buffed it appears), Bears can still use Tranquility and Nature's Swiftness/Cenarion Ward + Nature's Vigil and Brewmasters can use Chi Wave/Zen Sphere, Healing Spheres and Gift of the Ox Shields. In fact, it seems like Warriors are the only tanks that can't add much to the raid.

2) As for Damage, I have a 90 Bear (mostly a healer), 90 Monk (mostly heals), 90 DK (just hit 90), 87 Warrior and 90 Pally (also mostly a healer). 90 Pally falls FAR behind in damage compared to all the others. Even my Monk Healer does more damage. And yes, I understand how to properly gear my Prot Pally (Hit > Exp > Haste, etc.). My other 90 tanks are similarly geared and EASILY do more damage than my Prot Pally.

The only thing I can think of is that Prot Pally damage is supposed to be low so that Battle Healer isn't too OP, but if THAT was the case, why not just change the % of healing done by the Glyph?

What the OP is getting at, and what's the most important part of this problem, IMO, is that questing as Tank Pally, in comparison to questing as Tank anything else is just sad and slow.

If you say, "Just pull the whole room and go to town", I respond with "You can do that as ANY tank class and get away with it, and faster too".

That being said, it's not an issue of threat for me. No probs there. I'm also really looking forward to better gearing my Prot Pally just cause I love Battle Healer sooooo much.
So, I've been having the same issues with Prot dps as the OP. Here are some points that run through my head to justify the low DPS Blizz has decided to give Prot Pallies.

1) I would say Battle Healer is the only way a tank can help heal the raid, and for the most part that's correct, but DKs also have Blood Worms (which got suuuuper buffed it appears), Bears can still use Tranquility and Nature's Swiftness/Cenarion Ward + Nature's Vigil and Brewmasters can use Chi Wave/Zen Sphere, Healing Spheres and Gift of the Ox Shields. In fact, it seems like Warriors are the only tanks that can't add much to the raid.

2) As for Damage, I have a 90 Bear (mostly a healer), 90 Monk (mostly heals), 90 DK (just hit 90), 87 Warrior and 90 Pally (also mostly a healer). 90 Pally falls FAR behind in damage compared to all the others. Even my Monk Healer does more damage. And yes, I understand how to properly gear my Prot Pally (Hit > Exp > Haste, etc.). My other 90 tanks are similarly geared and EASILY do more damage than my Prot Pally.

The only thing I can think of is that Prot Pally damage is supposed to be low so that Battle Healer isn't too OP, but if THAT was the case, why not just change the % of healing done by the Glyph?

What the OP is getting at, and what's the most important part of this problem, IMO, is that questing as Tank Pally, in comparison to questing as Tank anything else is just sad and slow.

If you say, "Just pull the whole room and go to town", I respond with "You can do that as ANY tank class and get away with it, and faster too".

That being said, it's not an issue of threat for me. No probs there. I'm also really looking forward to better gearing my Prot Pally just cause I love Battle Healer sooooo much.


The answer is vengeance, not battle healer. When you don't have vengeance, you don't do a lot of damage, plain and simple. And yes, you will have high vengeance when tanking challenging content, and it will pump out modest heals from Battle Healer since it was nerfed by 10% earlier in the expansion. You see high damage from tanks in raids where they're being walloped. When questing, you don't have nearly enough vengeance to do competitive damage. Go Ret when questing, imo. Paladins suck without vengeance, more so than the other tanks.
Paladins suck without vengeance, more so than the other tanks.


That's the whole point of this thread that people are just accepting instead of being annoyed about it. Other tanks don't have to wait for Vengeance to get high to do decent dps. Pally tanks do.

You can say, "Just go Ret for questing" (which I actually did for awhile, and yeah, the dps is good, but I'm a Prot Pally...not Ret) but then that means you gotta shell out the, admittedly, not that high amount of gold to change whenever you want to tank, but it's just the simple fact that other tanks quest just as well as dps specs while following the "sacrifice some dps for survivability" model, whereas Prot pallies sacrifice a LOT of dps for the sake of probably more survivability than other tanks.
That's the whole point of this thread that people are just accepting instead of being annoyed about it. Other tanks don't have to wait for Vengeance to get high to do decent dps. Pally tanks do.


It's the same for all tanks. That and your gear completely sucks.
07/27/2013 03:42 PMPosted by Mocan
Paladins suck without vengeance, more so than the other tanks.


That's the whole point of this thread that people are just accepting instead of being annoyed about it. Other tanks don't have to wait for Vengeance to get high to do decent dps. Pally tanks do.

You can say, "Just go Ret for questing" (which I actually did for awhile, and yeah, the dps is good, but I'm a Prot Pally...not Ret) but then that means you gotta shell out the, admittedly, not that high amount of gold to change whenever you want to tank, but it's just the simple fact that other tanks quest just as well as dps specs while following the "sacrifice some dps for survivability" model, whereas Prot pallies sacrifice a LOT of dps for the sake of probably more survivability than other tanks.


The problem with making our low-end dps better is the fact that our top-end dps is among the best of all the tanks.
The problem with making our low-end dps better is the fact that our top-end dps is among the best of all the tanks.


Person you're replying to is ilvl 458...

Just saying. There is no prot DPS issue.
If you're going to do dailies as prot, here's the trick.

Pull EVERYTHING.

Massive AoE pulls, even if it's mobs you don't need to kill for the quests. If your gear's a little on the low side, then don't do huge pulls, but still do packs of at least 5 or more. The more you fight, the more damage you take, the higher your vengeance goes, the more you can withstand.
In fact, it seems like Warriors are the only tanks that can't add much to the raid.
Demoralizing banner and that one +hp shout says hi.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum