Unborn Val'kyr's Haunt ability discussion

Pet Battles
1. If you kill the enemy pet while Haunt is on it (even if the last tick of Haunt itself is the killing blow), your Val'kyr will permanently die as well. (This is a big one - proper Haunt use will need very careful play, especially since Curse of Doom will go off 1 turn before Haunt expires and resurrects your Val'kyr, so CoD cannot be the killing blow.)
2. If your Haunt is blocked/missed/dodged, your Val'kyr will permanently die. (Haunt will not be applied.)


These two seem like they urgently need fixing. That's way too hard a counter to be allowed to go live -- it would make the ability utter suicide (literally!) to use on anything with Deflection, Dodge etc. The risk and reward are just not balanced IMO.

If it were up to me, I'd say the Val'kyr should repop early and not die in the first place unless Haunt is successfully applied, respectively.

Have you tested what happens if the haunt is dispelled by something like voodoo figurine? (Probably what *should* happen is that the val'kyr pops back up immediately, but given these other points, I'm not confident it would...)

3. The Unborn Val'kyr cannot take damage or healing while it is considered dead.


I assume this is intentional. It seems ok to me, bench damage isn't that big a deal normally. It makes it a slight counter to bench damage spam or Cyclone.

4. The Unborn Val'kyr CAN have Consume Corpse used on it with no adverse effects, and in fact this will work even with repeated uses (because every Haunt makes a new corpse). This makes the Infected Fawn, Blighthawk, and Stitched Pup pretty good companions for the Unborn Val'kyr.


This is kind of cool, but Consume Corpse is strong enough that it might be a balance issue. On the other hand you'd have to have multiple pets of the same type, which makes you more vulnerable to counters.

If it does turn out to be a balance problem, consuming an only temporarily dead val'kyr should either not be allowed (if it's not a real corpse) or should prevent the val'kyr from returning. (In the latter case, of course, a val'kyr should always be consumed last if two corpses are available.)

5. The Unborn Val'kyr retains its buffs and debuffs and their durations do not decrease while the Val'kyr is dead.


Interesting... I wonder if there's some way to exploit this to make the haunt tick for more damage its whole duration. Amp Magic maybe?

It's probably for the best, balance wise, that it isn't a complete get out of debuffs free card. Because that's already a move and it doesn't do *anything* else, so the cost to use it is pretty substantial. Having it as a side effect of another useful move would be kind of unfair.

Although some debuffs will still be much less relevant when you come back to life on the bench and let them tick down there, so it could still be useful to get out of, e.g., Shattered Defenses.

6. In testing the ability on my "Immortal" turn (Undead passive), Haunt 'missed' my Unborn Val'kyr, and it died naturally from the Immortal debuff. This does raise the question though as to whether or not you could "hit" the enemy with Haunt but miss yourself... what would happen?


So does this mean the enemy still took damage from the haunt, but your val'kyr didn't come back when the haunt finished? That seems like as reasonable a resolution to this situation as anything else, really.
You woudln't want to take consume corpse on blighthawk, simply because ghostly bite is just a lot better. on a squirrel, maybe.

If I get a chance, I'd try pairing him with another dot based pet like giant bone spider. This way you can put multiple dots and force swap them.
How did you guys get this pet on test.
I'd say it's balanced by 2 facts:

1. If your two other pets die while this is active, you lose.

2. If your two other pets die, the valkyr is literally down one ability, lest you use it and lose the game.

Raises some interesting questions, like what happens if someone uses one of the abilities that removes all buffs/debuffs? Does the valkyr simply stay dead?
How did you guys get this pet on test.


Most accounts got a bunch of preloaded pet's, my wife's account got 2 Unborn Val'kyr, I got NONE, but I did tame a poor quality and a rare quality and have leveled them.
Raises some interesting questions, like what happens if someone uses one of the abilities that removes all buffs/debuffs? Does the valkyr simply stay dead?


Yeah I need to head out to Coldarra to fight some Nexus Whelplings and test this.
Can you use this after your UD rez? And assuming you can, do you come back to life at the end of the Haunt in that case?

1. If you kill the enemy pet while Haunt is on it (even if the last tick of Haunt itself is the killing blow), your Val'kyr will permanently die as well. (This is a big one - proper Haunt use will need very careful play, especially since Curse of Doom will go off 1 turn before Haunt expires and resurrects your Val'kyr, so CoD cannot be the killing blow.)
2. If your Haunt is blocked/missed/dodged, your Val'kyr will permanently die. (Haunt will not be applied.)

These two seem like they urgently need fixing. That's way too hard a counter to be allowed to go live -- it would make the ability utter suicide (literally!) to use on anything with Deflection, Dodge etc. The risk and reward are just not balanced IMO.


I think permadeath if the Haunt doesn't finish is necessary. Otherwise you can just Haunt for completely free damage plus a swap whenever it's available.
I think permadeath if the Haunt doesn't finish is necessary. Otherwise you can just Haunt for completely free damage plus a swap whenever it's available.


All of the breeds are slow, they will get hit each time before they haunt.
Also swapping in results in free hits as well.

It's not free damage.
All of the breeds are slow, they will get hit each time before they haunt.
Also swapping in results in free hits as well.

It's not free damage.


It seems like it would just be taking the damage from the turn it used Haunt, the "swap" would technically be on the next round and would just start both pets off at the same time, unlike a true swap.

I'm eager to see how the "Valk'yr dies permanently if Haunt debuffed pet is killed" issue plays out.

Still, I'd love to have one of these, and I'm sure I'll be seeing a lot of them in PvP as the pet is just to cool not to at least try to fit into a composition.
05/03/2013 04:40 PMPosted by Poofah
Can you use this after your UD rez? And assuming you can, do you come back to life at the end of the Haunt in that case?


Yes, you can use it on your UD passive turn and it applies Haunt normally. However, you do not come back to life at the end of Haunt.
It seems like it would just be taking the damage from the turn it used Haunt, the "swap" would technically be on the next round and would just start both pets off at the same time, unlike a true swap.


That works once. Then your UV comes back to life on the bench, so if you want to re-haunt you have to take a turn to swap it in (on which it will probably get hit, but the opponent won't necessarily know which turn you're planning to swap so you might be able to psych them into using a buff or something) and then, since it is slow, it will probably get hit again on the turn you are attempting to re-haunt, or possibly CC'd. (Or with some proc moves, potentially hit *and* CC'd.)

If haunting is allowed to instakill yourself ever, it's going to *massively* restrict the situations where you can use the move, and it already seems like a mechanically interesting but not necessarily all that effective move.
Yes, you can use it on your UD passive turn and it applies Haunt normally. However, you do not come back to life at the end of Haunt.


This use already makes it very strong -- it works almost exactly like Corpse Explosion, except it does more damage and if you play it right, your pet comes back to life.

If haunting is allowed to instakill yourself ever, it's going to *massively* restrict the situations where you can use the move, and it already seems like a mechanically interesting but not necessarily all that effective move.


It needs restrictions. Explode/Corpse Explosion are high-damage moves that instakill yourself, and they do less damage overall than Haunt. Without this restriction, it's too easy to start with Valkyr, Haunt off the bat (taking one attack), get a free swap on pet 'death', and then pick the best pet for the situation. When your 2nd pet dies, you free swap back to Valkyr and Haunt again.

The current Haunt is still very strong, but either you'll Haunt on your UDrez turn, or you'll build your team to take advantage of Haunt. Ie you would try to Haunt and then force the Haunted pet to swap to the bench so it can't die before Haunt expires. For example you'd start Valkyr, Haunt, then free-swap to Crawling Claw: CoD, Deathgrip, now the opposing pet is on the bench with 1400 damage of DoTs on it, and Haunt is set to expire before CoD goes off. Your opponent can of course swap the Haunted pet back in and try to let it die to prevent your Valkyr's rez, but you don't have to oblige them.
That works once. Then your UV comes back to life on the bench, so if you want to re-haunt you have to take a turn to swap it in (on which it will probably get hit, but the opponent won't necessarily know which turn you're planning to swap so you might be able to psych them into using a buff or something) and then, since it is slow, it will probably get hit again on the turn you are attempting to re-haunt, or possibly CC'd. (Or with some proc moves, potentially hit *and* CC'd.)


True, I didn't think about the turn you'd have to switch the Val'kyr back in.

I'd love to try it on my Feign Death team and see how it works out.

Like you said, if it can insta-kill itself on misses / dodges / blocks, etc, it may be more of a liability than a real contender.

But let's not kid ourselves, Haunt is already more gimmick than anything else, and a team would have to be built around being able to fight 2v3 even in the best circumstances in order to use it effectively.
I have been using this ability a lot lately. Experimenting with it in all sorts of ways. I also lost the majority of those matches due to forfeiting not far into it.

Haunt is a fun ability to use but it is also a very risky one and often backfires. You either use it at the very end in which case it isn't that great. Or you use it soon (with the idea of using it many times) and then have to work to make sure you don't kill the enemy pet (your Vrakul only returns to life if the haunt target doesn't die)

All in all, a ton of things can go wrong or unpredictably that will cause you to kill your own Vrakul while trying to get the most out of haunt. Not really worth it for serious teams.

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