Golden Lotus/Sunwalker Dezco short story up

Moon Guard
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I wish his quest cinematic didn't bug up when I did it on Auri, though. Immensely disappointing. :<


If you go to his tent in Krasarang there's a little doohickey you can click on to watch it again. I go back maybe once a month ._.
If you go to his tent in Krasarang there's a little doohickey you can click on to watch it again. I go back maybe once a month ._.

Is there really?

I need to go check this out, then.
Wow. I'm a heartless person, and even I teared up.
Man, tauren in general are pretty depressing.

In the freakin' starting area you see bodies of your people burning on the ground and a funeral is underway.
Taking the !@#$ that happens in 5.3 into account makes this all the worse.
Taking the !@#$ that happens in 5.3 into account makes this all the worse.


I haven't looked at or seen any of it yet, and I don't intend to. No spoilers please :c
If Chi-ji is a god, why didn't he save both of the children?

A tauren shaman in the Borean Tundra is killed, dismembered, and fashioned into a horrible little totem and yet he is resurrected by an orcish shaman with no apparent lasting problems.

Yet a creature that is a god, or if not a god is very close to one, somehow couldn't save a deceased but intact child?

He only saved the one he wanted.

Callous.

I guess I see too many holes in this story to fully enjoy it.

What was he supposed to do with his kids? Leave them on the ground so a stone dog or mogu can kill both of them? Or give them to the GL who he thought were trying to stop him or felt they weren't able to protect his kids?


Why was he sneaking around a dangerous countryside alone to begin with? That's one of the holes I have an issue with. If he was the de facto leader of the Horde population in the Shrine, why didn't he enlist support in getting out of the vale?
Supposed to choose according to who? Some foreign god who arbitrarily decided to claim his child? Why would Chi-ji even need to make such a declaration when there is already Alliance and Horde heroes already helping defend Pandaria?

One can technically put the blame squarely on Chi-ji and the Lotus for putting that horrid pressure on Dezco in the first place. Why wouldn't he want to take his children and leave after having lost so much already? And if the child was that precious, why didn't they take greater pains to protect it?

The only lesson I saw in that story was not to carry one's babies into a battle. But otherwise ...


Oh, you're not going to look at the story objectively. Well, what more can be said then?

If you don't know who said he was supposed to choose, then why argue? In this post you spend your time justifying Dezco's decision not to make a hard choice while in the next you complain about how Chi-Ji is a god and could have saved everyone!

If he's an all powerful god, then clearly Chi-Ji should have been listened to. You can't have your cake and eat it too. "He's just a callous god, oh Dezco was right to disregard what he was told."

The writing in this wasn't great, but the story was good in and of itself. Tauren complain about being overlooked a lot and when a story is given, one with meaning and feeling, you complain because you dislike that Dezco was taught a harsh lesson? Really?

You can try to justify your anger all you want, but it doesn't hold. Dezco made his decision -- to disobey the gods and as result he lost both of his children. The GL will have one and he killed the other in his foolishness.

There are no plot holes here.
Just accept it.

I've seen far too many people think they can outsmart some prophetic moral quandary and well, this is the result of picking the wrong choice. It's a lesson in being definitive and choosing.

Welp, I'm sobbing like a gigantic baby. Thanks Blizzard. You heartless jerks.


We all wondered how you would react when we read this.

Why was he sneaking around a dangerous countryside alone to begin with? That's one of the holes I have an issue with. If he was the de facto leader of the Horde population in the Shrine, why didn't he enlist support in getting out of the vale?


Someone not acting logically is not a plot hole.

Stop misusing the term.
Why was he sneaking around a dangerous countryside alone to begin with? That's one of the holes I have an issue with. If he was the de facto leader of the Horde population in the Shrine, why didn't he enlist support in getting out of the vale?


He didn't want to disappoint his allies by refusing Chi-Ji. He also didn't want the Horde to be blamed by his decision.

A tauren shaman in the Borean Tundra is killed, dismembered, and fashioned into a horrible little totem and yet he is resurrected by an orcish shaman with no apparent lasting problems.


Didn't know that was a thing. It does raise a question as to what are the limits of resurrecting.
If you don't know who said he was supposed to choose, then why argue? In this post you spend your time justifying Dezco's decision not to make a hard choice while in the next you complain about how Chi-Ji is a god and could have saved everyone!

If he's an all powerful god, then clearly Chi-Ji should have been listened to. You can't have your cake and eat it too. "He's just a callous god, oh Dezco was right to disregard what he was told."


If Chi-ji does not have the power to save more than the child he wanted, then he is not in fact a god and Dezco was under no obligation to listen to him. If Chi-ji is a god and chose to leave the second child dead because he protected his interests, then he is selfish and callous and the only lesson he has to teach is fear of power. Obey the gods or lose everything is a stupid "moral".

Tauren complain about being overlooked a lot and when a story is given, one with meaning and feeling, you complain because you dislike that Dezco was taught a harsh lesson? Really?


Because there was no lesson. A baby was killed so we could be emotionally invested. That's all it is.

05/03/2013 10:23 AMPosted by Kauthryn
You can try to justify your anger all you want, but it doesn't hold.


I do not have to justify an emotional response to a story I feel to be flawed. Objectively pointing out things I find implausible is one thing but I don't have to like what we got merely because you might not think my response is warranted.

There are no plot holes here.


If Dezco is the de facto leader of the Horde in the shrine, why wouldn't he enlist their aid to get himself and his children out of harm's way? Why would he knowingly travel across a countryside he knows is at war? If it isn't forced for the sake of infanticide, are they trying to portray him as horrifyingly stupid? Not trusting the Lotus is fine, but he overhears orcs discussing the downsides of giving the child away; it doesn't seem plausible to me that Dezco would find no support among the Horde populace.
Keep in mind that because someone can do something doesn't mean that they should or will do something.

The GL only needed one child.
Someone not acting logically is not a plot hole.

Stop misusing the term.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_hole
I don't get what you guys mean when you say he didn't choose.
He did choose, just not in the way he thought he was going to.
He choose to focus on rescuing one of his sons, and by doing so did not pay attention to the other.

That was the choice he made.
If Chi-ji does not have the power to save more than the child he wanted, then he is not in fact a god and Dezco was under no obligation to listen to him. If Chi-ji is a god and chose to leave the second child dead because he protected his interests, then he is selfish and callous and the only lesson he has to teach is fear of power. Obey the gods or lose everything is a stupid "moral".


Who said that he doesn't have a the power? You?
It's not stated anywhere that he doesn't.

He has no responsibility to save the second child just because he can. It was selfish and callous of Dezco not to make the choice to give one of the children to the GL. Again, ultimately they receive what they needed. It was his selfish actions that caused Cloudhoof to die.

You have not disproved that fact.

Because there was no lesson. A baby was killed so we could be emotionally invested. That's all it is.


Uh, no. I'm not retyping this again though.

I do not have to justify an emotional response to a story I feel to be flawed. Objectively pointing out things I find implausible is one thing but I don't have to like what we got merely because you might not think my response is warranted.


Your response isn't even about valid flaws; it's about kneejerk anger and your completely emotional reaction. If you cannot objectively discuss this then it's better to say "I disliked this" than "it is wrong and here is why."

If Dezco is the de facto leader of the Horde in the shrine, why wouldn't he enlist their aid to get himself and his children out of harm's way? Why would he knowingly travel across a countryside he knows is at war? If it isn't forced for the sake of infanticide, are they trying to portray him as horrifyingly stupid? Not trusting the Lotus is fine, but he overhears orcs discussing the downsides of giving the child away; it doesn't seem plausible to me that Dezco would find no support among the Horde populace.


Gethrian said it well above. Dezco's actions were more than "his actions" if he included the Horde in it. Not to mention he was sentimental and obviously didn't want to give his children up. At the start he's stroking his dead wife's hair -- at the end, his dead child's.

This is woefully simple to break down. I don't know why you're being so belligerent in your inability to see the very obvious moral. No, it isn't about "disobeying the gods" just like the moral of Little Red Riding Hood isn't "don't talk to anthropomorphic wolves!"

It is about being able to do what you should do, even if you don't want to. Again, in the end he loses a child no matter what. His decision not to pick between his children saw the choice taken away from him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plot_hole


Okay..?

I don't get what you guys mean when you say he didn't choose.
He did choose, just not in the way he thought he was going to.
He choose to focus on rescuing one of his sons, and by doing so did not pay attention to the other.

That was the choice he made.


He didn't choose between his children.
That is what is meant by "he didn't choose."
Was that really not clear?
Obviously he made a choice. He made the wrong choice.
05/03/2013 10:49 AMPosted by Kauthryn
I don't know why you're being so belligerent in your inability to see the very obvious moral.


Because you're choosing to rationalize a moral and attempting to express it as a fact.

I'm no longer interested in talking to you.
Because you're choosing to rationalize a moral and attempting to express it as a fact.


... it is a fact that the moral exists. Whether or not you like it doesn't determine its existence.

I'm no longer interested in talking to you.


Understandable.
I'm certain you will find others that will agree to just complain instead of break the story down to its merits.
I think the moral, if any, not sure if they ever try to have morals, is to not run away from your destiny or else it will bite you. Hard.
I've only read to page 3 so far, but I want to lead a raid on Chi'Ji. Crane of Hope my beard!
Well that was depressing.
I just realized, only one of the kids was actually dead. The other was just near death. I think Shandris and Varian were near dead too. You can heal near dead people, but not actually dead people unless it's necromancy.

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