Boomkin PVP damage

Druid
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05/04/2013 10:53 PMPosted by Bawk
His central point isn't about overall damage, it's about being able to contribute/control damage towards a kill. Nobody really denies how much balance can pad meters. Unlike PvE, it's far from effective contributions.


Yeah? And increased SP and PvP power should make stronger dots/SS procs.
I have no trouble killing people in bgs or rated pvp. But a boomkin's major focus isn't single target damage. It's overall damage, pressuring entire teams of people and dumping procs into a single target.

Especially in rated bgs, you are contributing by mass aoe. You're doing the damage and pressuring the healers so your lock(s) can get off that killing blow. That is not padding meters, imo.


Dots don't do overall pressure anymore. This isn't Cata. Your dots do awful damage and aren't comparable to spriest/locks in terms of pressure. You proc SS and global healers.

05/05/2013 12:12 AMPosted by Bawk


Reliance on dots isn't specifically a problem you have with gemming crit. The way starsurge works currently, every moonkin build depends on dots in one way or another. One could argue that crit makes you less dot reliant, because you'd only need 3-4 dots rather than 5-6 to get the same starsurge procs as someone who didn't go crit to the same extent as you.

I get where you're coming from with this argument, but people also forget that crit still has alot of use outside of starsurge procs. The moonkin zeitgeist seems to be "pvp power/mastery/spell power = more overall damage, crit = more starsurge damage". Crit would still be a very powerful and relevant stat even if starsurge procs weren't based on crit at all. If you do the math, the value of crit is only marginally below pvp power/mastery if you completely discount the extra starsurge procs. With that taken into account, it easily pulls out far ahead.

But in terms of in an RBG/BG-sense, if you are with your entire group and rolling dots on everyone and say have 10k crit -- you're overlapping and wasting SS procs. Whereas with 6-7k crit, dotting the same amount of players -- you're still proccing plenty of SS but, enough that you aren't wasting nearly as many. Crit is a very good stat but, to an extent. I still argue both gemming methods are very similar in terms of damage. Granted, I'm not sure what your play style is for RBGs but, when I am in RBGs I am double dotting everything in sight and dumping every SS proc into the main target, plus casting wrath/starfire if i'm not being focused. But, ultimately I am brought along because I chain clone everything in sight,sync well with DK target callers for vortex/beams and purge the living daylight out of targets (shaman symbiosis, yay!). The damage output I bring along is just the bonus, I never have trouble keeping up with everyone else anyways.

The only reason I wouldn't completely discount PvP Power just yet is because they're removing resil from the gear and adding more power onto our current gear. That is why there was a nerf to not only the gems but the value of power in general. In 5.3, we should have a lot more power and it should equalize out to the similar values we currently have in place, maybe just slightly lower.

Even come 5.3, I could see good use of split gemming for crit/power just to get higher crit values because of the gear scaling for instanced pvp.


I run with 13,000 crit and I don't get so many ss procs they get wasted. If you're somehow this lucky that you're chaining 12 ss in a row (which I doubt), you will be slaying everyone and 2400 in no time.
I think this is pretty funny. The goal of a Boomkin in RBGs or PvP in general is not to dps 1 target down with huge crits and spells. The purpose is to constantly keep pressure upon on alll targets. When your DoTs are out among everyone or enough players, you will see that you constantly have Starsurge procs. On average it's like 70-90k on a crit which should happen most of the time if you're gemmed/reforged/geared correctly. I someone calls out a target you simply continue DoTting everyone and focus the target. Then throw every Proc you get at that target and watch how fast they go down. You should have a macro that casts Starsurge at your focus target.

In the meantime, probably the biggest reason why you are in PvP is your Beam/Vortex. If you get that correct, then you win. More times than not, healers tend to be near each other. So if your DK is not around to AOE grip, then you drop it on those healers and watch as the team dies. Your Starfall should be used off of CD. As well as Incarnation while in Lunar eclipse. Should always be in an Eclipse. Cyclone healers at will. Easy easy easy.

Celestial Assignment should be used when it is time to murder. Same thing as before with Focus target. You will get even more Starsurge procs and your crits should be well over 100k due to DPS buff.

So your priority is not to do huge damage to one target. It is to spread amongst other team. Cast Beam/Vortex when necessary and %@%@**!# the other team. If done correctly, you will see how fast the other team goes down. But you can't do it on your own. Others need to step up as well.

-Cheers
http://imageshack.us/f/96/wowscrnshot042013004413.jpg/

I'm sorry... what? I know it's only 2k RBGs but still... We have good damage. If you think boomy damage is bad, i feel sorry for you.
I think this is pretty funny. The goal of a Boomkin in RBGs or PvP in general is not to dps 1 target down with huge crits and spells. The purpose is to constantly keep pressure upon on alll targets. When your DoTs are out among everyone or enough players, you will see that you constantly have Starsurge procs. On average it's like 70-90k on a crit which should happen most of the time if you're gemmed/reforged/geared correctly. I someone calls out a target you simply continue DoTting everyone and focus the target. Then throw every Proc you get at that target and watch how fast they go down. You should have a macro that casts Starsurge at your focus target.

So your priority is not to do huge damage to one target. It is to spread amongst other team. Cast Beam/Vortex when necessary and %@%@**!# the other team. If done correctly, you will see how fast the other team goes down. But you can't do it on your own. Others need to step up as well.

-Cheers


I think crit is much more relevant now in this expansion. On demand burst is what matters in pvp, far more than dots do. When I stacked crit in Cata it was subject to extreme scrutiny; now it's commonplace.

You are correct that the more dots you get on targets the higher the rate of your starsurge procs, so that hasn't changed. What has changed is that you can sometimes 2-3 shot focus targets.

Unrelated, I do think too many people are crutching on gorefiend/vortex/beam and I honestly hope they nerf that to hell.

http://imageshack.us/f/96/wowscrnshot042013004413.jpg/

I'm sorry... what? I know it's only 2k RBGs but still... We have good damage. If you think boomy damage is bad, i feel sorry for you.


His central point isn't about overall damage, it's about being able to contribute/control damage towards a kill. Nobody really denies how much balance can pad meters. Unlike PvE, it's far from effective contributions.
The only problem is spread pressure IS effective. Once more, balance damage is fine. We aren't brought to make a shatter kills. We are brought to coordinate beam grips, and tunnel spread damage. People panic more when their entire team starts melting rather then 1 person getting bursted on every 30sec-1min. They are trained to handle that
The best RBG groups will settle CCs on 2 healers while training a third as a kill target and melting the entire team. If you CC a monk and an Hpal, Sit on a shaman and Dot up a boomkin, dk, mage, warlock, spriest, and rogue-- things die.
http://imageshack.us/f/96/wowscrnshot042013004413.jpg/

I'm sorry... what? I know it's only 2k RBGs but still... We have good damage. If you think boomy damage is bad, i feel sorry for you.


If you would have bothered reading my entire post you would know that I was talking about single target damage for arenas and when I feel like doing randosm for fun. Once again I'm fully capable of getting obscenely high damage done on the charts, it's not very hard when you are dotting everything and using starfall.
Also, solarbeam is getting nerfed by 100% next patch.
05/04/2013 09:27 PMPosted by Çelestîä
And why the hell is it that EVERY TIME someone sees my they IMMEDIATELY stop attacking what they are trying to kill and just chase me around for 3 minutes? I mean wtf is up with that everything I see just wants to murder me all the damn time. I know it sounds dumb to complain about this but it's just unnatural EVERYONE wants to kill me it's like they think I'm a healer or something.


Try glyph of stars. For a while I was convinced that moonkin form must have an undocumented feature that increases the range of enemy warriors' charge by several miles and automatically activated it if they were in los. Then I glyphed stars and it felt like they only noticed me half the time.

But, then, my balance druid is a troll, and a big orange chicken is even more obvious than the others, so your results may vary.
05/05/2013 02:07 PMPosted by Josefine
Try glyph of stars. For a while I was convinced that moonkin form must have an undocumented feature that increases the range of enemy warriors' charge by several miles and automatically activated it if they were in los. Then I glyphed stars and it felt like they only noticed me half the time.


Also against mages it works wonders. Many times they burn a GCD thinking you are in humanoid form and trying to sheep you, and sometimes that makes a giant difference in fights.
Crit is the stat you stack your crit is a little to low pvp power is pretty meh for moonkins when your crit gets your free surges.

In a RBG me and the dk fight it out for top damage. you need to do alot of spread dots but those starsurges make up for it in spades

in arena its pretty rough . we rely alot of spread damage so when it coems down to just 1 target they will jut sit you and prevent alot of your damage and our procs will be low. you need your burst cool downs to get down a warrior its the only way
05/06/2013 09:56 AMPosted by Jusho
Crit is the stat you stack your crit is a little to low pvp power is pretty meh for moonkins when your crit gets your free surges.


Yeah, I've been experimenting quite a bit. With a dash of mastery and pvp power I sometimes hit people for 200k starsurges when the stars are aligned.
05/06/2013 05:16 PMPosted by Goldenclaw
Crit is the stat you stack your crit is a little to low pvp power is pretty meh for moonkins when your crit gets your free surges.


Yeah, I've been experimenting quite a bit. With a dash of mastery and pvp power I sometimes hit people for 200k starsurges when the stars are aligned.


currently im 25% ish crit unbuffed. i prob hit 30% with buffs and procs all i do is dot up 5 players turn on kill target and unload. i often see my self with more starsurge procs then i can spend. You should go crit 1st then mastery. ive unloaded up to 8 procs in a row before. team did not last
ive unloaded up to 8 procs in a row before. team did not last

Imagine running with 45% active active during cooldowns (+10% SS crit, 2pc T15). You seem competent, do you think set bonuses, such as +10% Crit to SS, may outpace PvP gear with the 5.3 changes?
05/07/2013 11:37 AMPosted by Cyous
ive unloaded up to 8 procs in a row before. team did not last

Imagine running with 45% active active during cooldowns (+10% SS crit, 2pc T15). You seem competent, do you think set bonuses, such as +10% Crit to SS, may outpace PvP gear with the 5.3 changes?


yup ive already got my 2 peices. since the 4 set bonus isnt all that good losing it is no big deal. im also working on getting some of the pve crit trinkets and a pve dagger from TOT for the extra socket

and i just checked your armory. you are rocking alot of best in slot pvp stuff come 5.3
Also, solarbeam is getting nerfed by 100% next patch.


Nice statistic bro. Everyone who bought it is 100% stupider now.
And why the hell is it that EVERY TIME someone sees my they IMMEDIATELY stop attacking what they are trying to kill and just chase me around for 3 minutes? I mean wtf is up with that everything I see just wants to murder me all the damn time. I know it sounds dumb to complain about this but it's just unnatural EVERYONE wants to kill me it's like they think I'm a healer or something.

Man, I laughed a lot reading your comment... because it´s totaly true. And this is true because usually moonkins die easily. Few players have the skill to play it right, stay alive, stay in the fight (dont running too far away to protect themselves) and do damage, all at the same time. When I play DK (my main now) I always focus on moonkins and in 90% of the cases this is a good choice.
and i just checked your armory. you are rocking alot of best in slot pvp stuff come 5.3

I'll get my pvp weapon this week, inc + 25% (net gain) in pvp damage output.

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