pvp balance

Battlegrounds
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Just finished my 8th BG for the day. 8 losses to horde, not just losses, we're talking trashed. Are all servers this unbalance(silvermoon) that horde wins 70% of the time. What's it going to take to get balance and fairness back. Does everyone need to switch to horde, or boycott pvp? Any fixes coming in 5.3?
Part of its oqueue. Can make stretches of BG'ing absolutely terrible (or awesome), because you can get a streak of semi-premades.

Also, due to the role gearing plays this expansion in pvp, and the levels of s5 burst damage we have, losing teams tend to get absolutely bufu'd while a winning team can quickly find themselves with enough momentum to squat in front of the enemy GY.

Truly, we are not in the golden age of WoW pvp.
Whenever an expansion comes out, the talk is all about class balance. Shouldn't there be more talk about horde/alliance balance. I read the comments about 51% to 49% win/loss stats, but my tracking for a month, on silvermoon is closer to 70%/30%. Are other experiencing the same, or is it me.
I am at a loss figuring out what you want changed exactly. Your battlegroup (your server is irrelevant FYI) might have a better skilled pool of Horde players then Alliance but even then, what do you expect Blizzard to do? They cannot exactly wave a magic wand and make you all play better.
The whole PvP system is borked - I came back to give it a shot and low level, any level, 90 level, it's useless and frustrating.. Re-cancelling.
Yes they can, Blizzard has all the data base and can do algorithms to balance teams. They could look at; gear level, player ratings, timed played and classes to better balance teams. They could also cap the number of high level players going to horde. Just think how you pick players to play a pickup game of basketball. You rotate picks based on size, experience and playability. But a computer can do it better. They can wave a magic wand of statistical analysis to make it more fair. We pay good money and put in the time and effort, we just want a level playing field. How can we overcome the hordes advantages when they win most of the contests, which gets them even better gear to play even better. A stacked deck.
Yes they can, Blizzard has all the data base and can do algorithms to balance teams. They could look at; gear level, player ratings, timed played and classes to better balance teams. They could also cap the number of high level players going to horde. Just think how you pick players to play a pickup game of basketball. You rotate picks based on size, experience and playability. But a computer can do it better. They can wave a magic wand of statistical analysis to make it more fair. We pay good money and put in the time and effort, we just want a level playing field. How can we overcome the hordes advantages when they win most of the contests, which gets them even better gear to play even better. A stacked deck.


"Horde advantages"? "A stacked deck"? What the devil are you talking about? Other than supposedly outplaying the Alliance on your battlegroup, what exactly do the Horde have over you that is so unfair?
I agree with your findings. Actually, over 225 games played at Level 90 Ally side since 5.2 my win/loss is 42%. If I exclude AV/IoC my win/loss is 27% on 167 games. My win/loss in AV/IoC is 84% over 58 games.

AV - 20 wins / 4 losses (83% win)
IoC - 29 wins / 5 losses (85% win)
EotS - 5 wins / 17 losses (22% win)
TP - 8 wins / 20 losses (28% win)
WG - 14 wins / 33 losses (29% win)
SotA - 5 wins / 19 losses (20% win)
AB - 8 wins / 20 losses (28% win)
TBfG - 6 wins / 12 losses (33% win)

Needless to say except for the token AV/IoC games that Blizzard throws out there, I'm not having any fun at all. The system is broken. All games solo queued (obviously).
"Horde advantages"? "A stacked deck"? What the devil are you talking about? Other than supposedly outplaying the Alliance on your battlegroup, what exactly do the Horde have over you that is so unfair?
Exactly... the other team doesn't have an advantage when they simply outplay your team. I get that losing is frustrating but the solution is for you & your teammates to stop playing like crap.

Don't give me the gear or healing excuses either, because that's a load of BS. I see geared alliance teams quite frequently & yet they still lose... because they are playing poorly. This is a 100% player based issue & the fix is to simply play better.
Yes they can, Blizzard has all the data base and can do algorithms to balance teams. They could look at; gear level, player ratings, timed played and classes to better balance teams. They could also cap the number of high level players going to horde. Just think how you pick players to play a pickup game of basketball. You rotate picks based on size, experience and playability. But a computer can do it better. They can wave a magic wand of statistical analysis to make it more fair. We pay good money and put in the time and effort, we just want a level playing field. How can we overcome the hordes advantages when they win most of the contests, which gets them even better gear to play even better. A stacked deck.


And this, ladies and gentlemen, would destroy PVP.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8728754179

Ah, knew I could start linking this thread in time.
Read and learn, OP. :)
make all future battlegrounds a 1:1 mirror like ToK

face Horde teams against Horde teams if the queue is severely skewed to speed up times

get to it
The problem with the OP is he thinks balance = 50% win rate for all. That is NOT balance. There is a reason why some players win more than 50% & some less... and it's working as intended.
The problem with the OP is he thinks balance = 50% win rate for all. That is NOT balance. There is a reason why some players win more than 50% & some less... and it's working as intended.


This is an interesting question I was thinking about discussing for my next blog: what exactly is balance?

What do players expect?

50% W/L? And even at 50%, you might have streaks where you lose 8 in a row - is that balanced? Does it mean every class is balanced 1 v 1? Every Battleground is mirrored? We all have the same gear/stats? That the team with the most "skill" wins? That certain groups of classes don't have a higher level of synergy (hello AOE grip, ring, beam, vortex)? Does it mean that all classes can't hit above a certain % of health (hello shatter combo, chaos bolt)? Does is mean every class should have a similar CC?
This is an interesting question I was thinking about discussing for my next blog: what exactly is balance?
Balance is equal opportunity to succeed... it doesn't means everyone succeeds equally. Huge difference.
05/05/2013 09:31 AMPosted by Infestyx
This is an interesting question I was thinking about discussing for my next blog: what exactly is balance?
Balance is equal opportunity to succeed... it doesn't means everyone succeeds equally. Huge difference.


Yeah, ok, I think we all understand that : )

But exactly WHAT would give everyone an equal opportunity to succeed?
05/05/2013 09:31 AMPosted by Infestyx
This is an interesting question I was thinking about discussing for my next blog: what exactly is balance?
Balance is equal opportunity to succeed... it doesn't means everyone succeeds equally. Huge difference.


I've always taken it to mean that given enough of a sample (say, 500 BGs- it has to be a large sample to forgive the drag a player may be on their team while gearing up), assuming you ca vary the times you play to put yourself in the best position for wins, you should end up with a win/loss of around 50% overall.

For the most part, that is what I've seen in my BGs. If premades are as common as said, that number may be slightly different. But that remains to be seen.
05/05/2013 09:40 AMPosted by Lacrìmosa
Balance is equal opportunity to succeed... it doesn't means everyone succeeds equally. Huge difference.


I've always taken it to mean that given enough of a sample (say, 500 BGs- it has to be a large sample to forgive the drag a player may be on their team while gearing up), assuming you ca vary the times you play to put yourself in the best position for wins, you should end up with a win/loss of around 50% overall.

For the most part, that is what I've seen in my BGs. If premades are as common as said, that number may be slightly different. But that remains to be seen.


So you define balance as 50/50 win loss regardless of what happens during this games?

Meaning, if 60% of the maps were skewed in favor of one faction, so your faction had to work harder to win on those maps, as long as you do, and come out at 50%, is that balanced?
Not so much. I assume a 50% win/loss will come out (after a large number of games) because there will be enough games to overcome bad play, or bots. Unless a map is inherently unbalanced (say, AV or SSM- going purely by abnormal win/loss stats). But even those maps will balance eachother out, in a total win/loss.
Assuming the vast majority of BGs are pretty balanced, the only major variables are team comp and team play. It's unlikely you will get horrible team mates every game, just as it isn't likely you'll get amazing team mates every game. Ideally a large enough sample of games would take both into account.

Meaning, if 60% of the maps were skewed in favor of one faction, so your faction had to work harder to win on those maps, as long as you do, and come out at 50%, is that balanced?


If that was the case, then I would expect a slightly lower win/loss- since the odds would be stacked against you. Personally, I don't think it's that bad. But I could be wrong.

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