The Major Reason for Wow's decline

Dungeons, Raids and Scenarios
People can't schedule the same time and day every week for years to raid. And, raiding is really what you have to do to have the best in this game.

You don't raid and if you go into LFR you get trolled for having bad dps, healing, or tanking gear. And, we all know that happens. And, if you don't know that you haven't done LFR enough or at all.

The people with gear troll those who don't have gear and do crappy dps, healing, tanking... it is what it is. The raiders troll the people who play casually and chase away subscribers.
The people with gear troll those who don't have gear and do crappy dps, healing, tanking... it is what it is. The raiders troll the people who play casually and chase away subscribers.


Except LFR exists, nobody has bad gear in this game anymore unless they're lazy.
And, not surprisingly the next post down is "get rid of LFR."
05/08/2013 08:16 PMPosted by Azane
The people with gear troll those who don't have gear and do crappy dps, healing, tanking... it is what it is. The raiders troll the people who play casually and chase away subscribers.


Except LFR exists, nobody has bad gear in this game anymore unless they're lazy.


Exactly the attitude which chases subscribers away. And, people don't have to put up with crap like that and they don't. /cancel subscription is what they say to that.
A guy goes into LFR with 520 gear and another guy goes into LFR with 480 gear and does tons less dps. The guy with 520 gear is going to troll every single day to make himself feel better about himself.
Yeah Azane's forums posting clearly drove 1.3 million players away, especially since the primary sub loss was in Asian realms.
A guy goes into LFR with 520 gear and another guy goes into LFR with 480 gear and does tons less dps. The guy with 520 gear is going to troll every single day to make himself feel better about himself.


Or

the 520 guy is going to carry the 480 guy and clear the place much much easier, since the 480 guy is busy making forum posts about lei shen being hard

and ya, my main is on a CN server, and all I do all day is tell people they're bad, and they quit.
A guy goes into LFR with 520 gear and another guy goes into LFR with 480 gear and does tons less dps. The guy with 520 gear is going to troll every single day to make himself feel better about himself.


Don't feel bad, I went into LFR today and stomped everyone in dps

as the tank

...

even on not "I"M THE TANK AND TAKE LOTS OF DAMAGE AND SMASH THINGS HARD" fights.
05/08/2013 08:22 PMPosted by Azane
A guy goes into LFR with 520 gear and another guy goes into LFR with 480 gear and does tons less dps. The guy with 520 gear is going to troll every single day to make himself feel better about himself.


Or

the 520 guy is going to carry the 480 guy and clear the place much much easier, since the 480 guy is busy making forum posts about lei shen being hard

and ya, my main is on a CN server, and all I do all day is tell people they're bad, and they quit.


Sadly i could actually believe that.

Also the reason Paragon stopped raiding, is because Asane made an account on thier forums and they went "oh .. we're boned ... we quit"
Azane destroyed Exodus as well.

I have it on good authority he is the reason Death and Taxes broke up too.
I would assume the game just isn't hard enough actually is why the sub loss happened.

They mentioned they might be competing with F2P MMO's on the east, and thats what most are.

Its really not the fact of any in-game content of WoW. Its going to become the sub fee sooner or later. Who knows, but if they're competing with F2P MMO's over there then its obvious what the problem is.
few reasons:

-shared lockouts. this killed pugs dead, combined with LFR.

-dailies. too many. TOO MANY. too much gating.

-server balance: some servers are full, many are empty. hard to play a mmo with noone around to do things with.

-dungeons: look how many BC had, and compare that with MoP. yes, dungeons are trivial when you outgear them, but they should still be a major part of the content in addition to raids.

-creativity. I cant say blizz has been spot on with new raid content. dont get me wrong, t14/t15 are decent, but it isnt as memorable as say, BT, kara, or ulduar. ulduar was a work of art, im not sure we'll see a raid as well crafted in quite some time.

-expansion themes: BC/wotlk were distinct and had a good story. cata was just a revamp of 1-60 content, deathwing was never on the level of arthas/illidan. MoP is a departure from the "norm" so to speak. it isnt bad, but I cant say it appeals to everyone. people want to see stuff like sargeras, or other big lore figures.

the game is far from dead, but there is room for improvement. if GC is willing to listen to the player base, or be open minded to suggestions, then things might improve. otherwise, he might just "jay wilson" this game.
05/08/2013 09:02 PMPosted by Jirat
I would assume the game just isn't hard enough actually is why the sub loss happened.


Yet many will argue the exact opposite, the hardest heroic raid fights of this tier are some of the hardest the game has ever seen.

There's more content and it has been speedier then ever yet people will fixate on something that is missing (omg only dailies wtf!, where are my dungeons?) the raiding content has been great too.

I think a lot of players just have gotten tired of the hot key based mmo style of game and are looking for something different as well as not being able to devote the time they would like to.

Social ties are what keep a lot of the long timers subbed and playing as well, when my friend I raid with quits and then I can't recruit to replace him for my raid team there's a good chance I will quit too eventually.
Please stop talking like anyone knows why WoW is losing subs, unless you have distinct knowledge in how the ASIAN market works, what is said is irrelevant.
I don't think its really possible for them to stop losing subscriptions. The best they can do is slow down the loss, or maybe entice some people that used to play that come back, but overall, its pretty much inevitable that the game will decline.

It won't be too long before this game is 10 years old. People leave for all sorts of reasons, many of which have nothing to do with the game itself. Some do have to do with the game, but the decision that convinced them to leave might have kept 10 other people playing. Its hard to say. But eventually, Bob quits, for whatever reason, and then its extremely difficult to get fresh blood to replace him when the game is this old. And maybe Bob quitting because he got married and has a kid and decided that he doesn't want to devote the time to the game anymore diminishes his friend Billy's experience, making him more likely to quit without Blizzard being involved in the process at all.

I'm not trying to absolve Blizzard of all blame here, I think there have been some decisions that were unhealthy for the game overall (many of which occurred for Cata), I just feel like some people are arguing that if Blizzard just listened to them, that the game would still be growing, or at least maintaining the subscription base. I just don't think that is realistic. The game is past its prime. I still enjoy it, but I'm also pretty sure I will eventually grow tired of the game, pretty much regardless of what Blizzard does. Its just a matter of when.

Then yes, there is the fact that many of the losses were in the Asian market which has a different subscription model. But this still applies to the smaller losses in the other markets. The game is going to be on a decline overall, with spikes when new content is released. And that's fine. Its going to be a loooooong time before the game could be in any real sense called "dead".
few reasons:

-shared lockouts. this killed pugs dead, combined with LFR.

-dailies. too many. TOO MANY. too much gating.

-server balance: some servers are full, many are empty. hard to play a mmo with noone around to do things with.

-dungeons: look how many BC had, and compare that with MoP. yes, dungeons are trivial when you outgear them, but they should still be a major part of the content in addition to raids.

-creativity. I cant say blizz has been spot on with new raid content. dont get me wrong, t14/t15 are decent, but it isnt as memorable as say, BT, kara, or ulduar. ulduar was a work of art, im not sure we'll see a raid as well crafted in quite some time.

-expansion themes: BC/wotlk were distinct and had a good story. cata was just a revamp of 1-60 content, deathwing was never on the level of arthas/illidan. MoP is a departure from the "norm" so to speak. it isnt bad, but I cant say it appeals to everyone. people want to see stuff like sargeras, or other big lore figures.

the game is far from dead, but there is room for improvement. if GC is willing to listen to the player base, or be open minded to suggestions, then things might improve. otherwise, he might just "jay wilson" this game.


-- the social element is near dead. the OP has a point, if LFR is endgame then things can get mighty boring for you on a lot of fronts. i miss socializing in raids, etc. now it's pretty much gogogo and then drop group. Feels like the forums are more social then the game now.
People say that raiders are lucky they get content designed for them since we're the minority of the sub base.

But when WoW loses subs, everyone blames the raids.

Just odd.
LFR was intended as a stepping stone to normals, but instead players just stopped raiding normals completely, so it might have hurt more than it helped. LFR is not as engaging as an organized raid, and Blizzard needs to find a way to get players back into normals. The "beer league" is what LFR should have been, still organized but super easy. I don't see them removing LFR at this point though, so either they create yet another difficulty or just make normals really easy. Should probably opt for the latter.

The transfer service over the years has slowly killed off a lot of a lot of servers too, making normal mode pugging impossible unless you play on one of those superservers. Like others have said, LFR does nothing for fostering a healthy server community like normal mode pugging does. People will stay subbed if they can make a few friends along the way, but relationships are typically not forged in a LFR group.

The people with gear troll those who don't have gear and do crappy dps, healing, tanking... it is what it is. The raiders troll the people who play casually and chase away subscribers.


Is it trolling when you call out a 90 DK doing nothing but hitting Frost Strike through an entire Heroic (not even auto attacking)? Because I've been told off by a group for calling someone out like that, questioning whether or not he was botting. He didn't take it very well, but how hard is it to right-click on stuff?
Since most players are not hardcore, the game will live or die based on whether it retains those casual players. I would guess that the devs attempt to make the non-raid endgame content more compelling and sticky for those players wasn't a success. Dailies and scenarios? Yeah, not seeing how that could have worked.

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