Grinding a million dailies to buy valor gear

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05/11/2013 09:24 AMPosted by Ratheron
1. The easiest and fastest way to get into 5.0 LFR today is by grinding Honor or JP (and then converting to Honor) and buying the 476 epics. This doesn't replace the T14 content at all because people still A) want T14 for set bonuses or Transmog and B) people want their Sha weapon.


Yes because they can't skip up to ToT through the honor gear. AKA they still have to run it. Thank you for proving my point.
Unless your point was that people will still need to run T14 content after making 476/489 VP gear cost JP, we're not agreeing here.

2. The legendary questline. If someone wants to go through that, they must grind the 5.0 raids to get the Power/Wisdom tokens.


It screws them over because then no one would run said content unless they do it with a guild and apparently since WoW is now a solo player game it ruins someone's ability to get the legendary.
Again, disagree. If you want to do the legendary questline, you don't have a choice but to run through 5.0 raids, regardless of your ilevel. Where someone is at in their current progression doesn't affect this in the least.

05/11/2013 08:04 AMPosted by Etrigan
Converting the previous VP gear to JP has worked several times in the past and should have been the way Blizzard did it.


They only ever did it with ICC and Cataclysm. ICC was a great raid tier as it stood but it didn't come before content that had already used that model. T11 was also a great tier but following that tier the rest were crap. Gear progression cannot out-pace the level of gear that bosses are tuned to be killed with. If that happens the content becomes trivialized because what normally is supposed to kill you doesn't, or what is normally supposed to slow you down in a tier doesn't.
As you said, they have done it before and it worked out fine. It doesn't trivialize anything - at best it gives some struggling guilds a leg up on current content, but if you're struggling against ToT, the 476/89 VP gear aren't likely to be game-changers for you.

They are under the (mistaken, imo) impression that making everything take longer will increase or at least maintain subscribers. Given what we've seen, that doesn't appear to be the case. Maybe changing things will reverse that trend, maybe it won't, but in any case, this current gearing situation is pretty heavily flawed.


No the issue is that people are demanding instant gratification, sure there are some kinks and things to work out. I'd love to be able to gear my alts faster than I do (Considering I already do it pretty quickly its not a huge concern of mine, nor do I need them all to be high end geared to raid. I have a main for a reason) but I'm not one to sacrifice these amazing raid tiers we've had for more as the term describes "welfare epics."

There are better ways to fix the alt gearing problem, or maybe people should realize that they don't need to gear out every single toon in the best gear available.
Making previous tier's VP gear available via JP isn't instant gratification. At best it guarantees you'll only ever need to be one tier behind current content which I don't feel is unreasonable. In 3.3, players were able to purchase current-tier gear with Frost badges (VPs in current terms) and that still didn't trivialize anything - it took a couple of months to purchase a full set of gear for one person (including belts, boots, bracers, etc) and even then it was the lowest ilevel version of that tier.

In any case, Bashiok seems to have acknowledged that Blizzard may be re-thinking their gating mechanisms for gear going forward, so hopefully the next expansion won't be quite so restrictive in that area.
05/11/2013 12:47 PMPosted by Etrigan
Making previous tier's VP gear available via JP isn't instant gratification.


Agreed, and personally when I level alts I never gear them to the same level as my main (whatever that may be at the time). Make jpoints matter, or let us buy 5.0 or 5.1 valor gear without the rep requirement :/
And you recommend that people get the 480 ilvl required to get into T15's LFR... how exactly? You can't rely on LFR drop rates even after the increase that was provided, and the majority of players don't have 50k in gold to dump on every alt that they hit max lvl with to buy crafted items.


You can't rely on LFR drop rates to get you there if you're barely geared to be in them and run each once. You can get 10,000,000 coins from Isle of Thunder. Just run it a second time if you're in that big of a rush. My death knight got to 480 ilvl within 24 hours of hitting 90 without me buying any gear other than some crafted PVP gear. It's definitely doable, even if you don't get every item you want out of LFR in one clear.
I don't think grinding dallies is a lot of work. It's fun and simple and easy, and you get almost 20 gold a dallie.

Now what i do have a grip with, is the 1000 valor cap. Blizzard just doesn't want us to gear up so fast, making it painful to even log on to play.
Now what i do have a grip with, is the 1000 valor cap. Blizzard just doesn't want us to gear up so fast, making it painful to even log on to play.


Yea I find this low of a cap to be irritating asd well. We should at the least be able to buy a 1250 piece of gear. IMO.
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Again, disagree. If you want to do the legendary questline, you don't have a choice but to run through 5.0 raids, regardless of your ilevel. Where someone is at in their current progression doesn't affect this in the least.


So when 6.0 hits, what happens to the legendary questline?

That questline is a major part of the lore for this patch, but unless Blizzard either (a) allows people to buy the Sigils on the AH or (b) has them drop from mobs other than raid bosses, that particular quest is going to be unable to complete, and anyone wishing to progress through the full storyline of the game is going to have a big hole in their experience. Because I tell you what won't be happening -- 5.0 raids.

One of the biggest positives to this game is you can buy it today, start from Level 1 and have a reasonable idea of what vanilla, TBC, Wrath, Cata and Pandaria were like just from doing the quest sequence. The problem with Wrathion's quest is that it takes LFR to complete -- while at the same time sort of driving the main part of the story. Already, players who don't raid by choice are at a disadvantage; in the next expansion, you can literally add EVERYONE else to that.

There are two easy solutions here to the gearing problem. The first is the VP-to-JP transition, which many have already said. And really, when you have a Blue in the thread telling people not to spend VP on VP gear, it's hypocritical to suggest the conversion shouldn't be made.

But if you're going to stubbornly stick to that, here's the workaround: Leave all VP gear below a certain level (483? 489?) as VP gear, but make it Bind on Equip to ONE other toon on your Battle.net account. In other words, this pally can buy a leather helm, send it my monk, and he can equip it. But my monk cannot subsequently pass it to a rogue, nor can any of us sell it on the AH.

That way, the main toon is still responsible for the grind to get VP, but an alt gets the benefit.
I have a palli alt I have done MSV since it came out without a weapon drop I have done HoF since it came out no weapon drop I have done terrace since IT came out no weapon and I have been doing throne since it came out and no weapon I do all possible weapon drops of the old content and still no drop ever how about adding a weapon or 2 for valor points Blizz says easy to gear up not so easy when you can't get a weapon that is of current tier or any for that matter
People who do not have the skill or time to invest into doing real raids, should not be able to get everything that people who actually do them get.
Alts are not your main and should not have everything your main has. I don't even see the point of gearing alts if I'm not going to actually raid with them.
05/11/2013 12:38 PMPosted by Rolly
That so called catch up mechanic is bs. Not saying it doesn't work but fresh 90's should not go onto the isle of thunder without some sort of gear. Mobs there have 500k + hp and your not exactly doing a great amount of dps or have the best of gear fresh at 90 and those mobs hit hard as well.. People will continue to do the 5.0 reps for the gear or at least do heroics till 460 gs then lfr it. I would not take any of my alts fresh at 90 on that isle unless you plan on nerfing it.


This is the part I get a kick out of. All these people and Bioshock saying "just go to Isle of Thunder" lol. Pretty obvious that they haven't tried it on a fresh 90.


I did do it on a fresh 90, and I was fine. Maybe it's you who needs to try it.

In fact if you just do the solo scenarios to completion, you'll have enough rep to buy all of the Sunreaver / Kirin Tor gear. You don't need to do a single daily. The only part of IoT that did give me trouble was the solo scenario where you're riding the Pterrorwing, but a quick talent swap solved that problem.

You're not on your main. You can't pull 5+ mobs and expect to survive. Sometimes, you even have to use CC. And there's nothing wrong with that.
I dont think it takes a million dailies to buy valor gear... maybe like 5 or 6 thousand at best.
People who do not have the skill or time to invest into doing real raids, should not be able to get everything that people who actually do them get.
Alts are not your main and should not have everything your main has. I don't even see the point of gearing alts if I'm not going to actually raid with them.


How about being able to get their alts into the three "old" LFRs? According to Blizz itself, only Throne is "current." Unless you're on the Wrathion quest, of course. Then it's all current.

How about people that think of their alts as extensions or different sides of themselves and/or their main? Not every player plays the game the same way. If there was just one "right" way to play this game there wouldn't be 8 million people left.

I don't think anyone wants to be able to gear all their alts in heroic Throne gear. What most are asking simply is not to have to do all the legwork grind a second time. I don't think many of us really minded doing it once. But if you're going to allow alts on the Battle.net account, you kind of have to ask the question, "why?". Is it just to fill in the professions you can't learn, or do you really want to be able to do something with them? If the design of the game keeps those alts from being viable, then just get rid of alts entirely.

Right now, there exists two ways to make an alt viable (meaning, to be able to at least get it to where it can walk in the door for the LFR at Throne, the current endgame): You either grind it like you ground your main, or you do some kind of workaround like spam-running heroic dungeons for JP, converting them to Honor, then buying enough PvP gear to add to the 522 neck on the island and whatever 463 pieces may have dropped in heroics and then get into the three older raids, where you RNG for gear while probably grinding at least one or two world reps to spend the VP you're accumulating. That's a helluva hoop to jump through.

Now, do that on 11 alts. I don't know about you, but I don't have either the time or the wherewithal to pull that off. And if I want to know how to learn how to play a caster in a raid environment, or atonement heal in a raid environment, I gotta.

No one is seriously asking to have a dozen 522 i-level toons handed to them. But making 483 gear, which is obsolete IN THE OWN WORDS OF A BLIZZARD EMPLOYEE, available as a JP buy is not too much to ask.
i didnt read any of this above just from glancing over it it seems like a battlefield

my question is about the alani mount why did I have to grind one rep to revered and 2 to exalted for a mount I had to farm for? It seems like a silly idea
Cry more. You do not deserve free epic gear. I grinded all dailys and am exalted with all panderia factions.

If you want the gear, put forth the effort.


ugh, grinding daily quests to get gear....

reason #24214 why WOW has lost 1.3 million subscribers in the last 2 months
And you recommend that people get the 480 ilvl required to get into T15's LFR... how exactly? You can't rely on LFR drop rates even after the increase that was provided, and the majority of players don't have 50k in gold to dump on every alt that they hit max lvl with to buy crafted items.


This alt you see before me, Triani, earned level 90 on either saturday or sunday of last week. so seven or eight days, and 2000 valor, have pushed me to 488.

You can, at the minimum, earn 475 from PvP gear alone (476 pieces, 470 weapon). And if you hate PvP, you can even convert all your justice to honor. PvP pieces are equivalent to PvE pieces of the same item level, because the PvP stats are "free" stats. The only thing you miss out on are some socket bonuses being PvP power/resil.

Once you hit 470, you can do HoF/ToES for 483s. Go to the isle of thunder, get a key to the palace of Lei Shen, and you'll get an easy 10+ coins. Use all coins on items you need, repeat farm bosses. I go for weapons first, personally, since you can only get 470 from honor, and weapons have raw spellpower upgrades. Eventually, 483s will push you to 480, the golden number.

I despise dailies, but even I see the value in earning at least honored for a free 476 belt, courteousy of the Sunreaver Onslaught. (lesser charms for Mogu Runes are cool too, I guess.)

Also, buy the 522 neck for 1250 valor, if you have it. That helps immensely. Or, brute force it with 483s and buy a trinket after you do some ToT LFR.

It's VERY easy to get a character into ToT now. I have four toons that can do ToT, all with the above strategy, all in a few days/two resets (2000 valor). The hard part is finding the time to do ToT on all of them each week, which I fail at.

P.S.: I really despise dailies.
That questline is a major part of the lore for this patch, but unless Blizzard either (a) allows people to buy the Sigils on the AH or (b) has them drop from mobs other than raid bosses, that particular quest is going to be unable to complete, and anyone wishing to progress through the full storyline of the game is going to have a big hole in their experience. Because I tell you what won't be happening -- 5.0 raids.


What's your point?

People didn't have a problem with missing the entire storyline of previous tiers in Cataclysm.

They can go back next expansion. Also, openraids. Yes, there are even 5.0 raids forming.

On the whole this thread is ridiculous. My Mage was in Throne in 2 weeks and didn't do enough dailies to buy more than 1 Valor item at the reduced cost. You can absolutely rely on LFR's increased drop rates and a little PvP for 476, plus crafted and BoE gear.
Bashiok, if you're still following this, please consider adding the rep commendations from Wrath back.

It would both solve the problem of nothing to spend JP on and make life easier for alts.
I'm not sure. Do you feel like that was the best way to get Valor? It may be the slowest. Good for filling small gaps though. Get a few friends together, chain-run Challenge Modes = VP win.


Our guild has talked about challenge modes, even had a few members go try a few, they reported too much pressure for too little return. Considering the miserable grinds we've all been suffering with through this expansion, and the state of frustrated angry resentment a LOT of players seem to play in these days. Timed events with this expansions nasty drop rates as reward just seem like adding insult to injury.

The pressure of a timed event may be enticing to a select few, but honestly, on my server anyway, our elite super raider guilds dont even do those things. I haven't run a scenario since the first month MoP was out because they really offer nothing worth my time, gear too weak to advance with, IF any gear even drops (usually doesn't in my experience), it's just gold gold gold and so little gold it's insulting. I'm already grinding miserable dailies I have hated for months to get coins I resent having to gather to get rolls that 45 times out of 50 give me...28 gold. So I am already playing in a state of overworked frustration, why would I want to punish myself by getting more repair bills for...a handful of gold and VPs I can't spend unless I grind more of the dailies I utterly despise? It's all nice for the people who have one toon they focus on exclussively, I have guildies who run one toon every day and are pretty happy, some have 1-2 alts and have been happy too.

I have 7 90s, every expansion until this one I have put the time and effort in to get all 10 of my toons to max level and raid worthy. I have 11 toons over 85 right now, 7 at 90, I want all of them at 90 and I want all of them capable of running all of the LFR. Getting there in this expansion has been the most unpleasant gaming experience I have ever had, and I have come to realize, that with things as they are, I simply can NOT "get there" because I can not choke down doing the horrid dailies across 11 toons to unlock the rep so i can spend valor and level professions. This expansion has left me feeling like the game just doesn't offer what i want anymore, which is the ability to run all classes at endgame and have time to have fun with them. Anymore the game seems to be trying to turn into some piss in the ocean console game where you have one toon you take through to endgame then throw the game in the garbage or trade it to a friend for a slurpee. If you level 1-2 toons you can do it with ease, if you want to get them raid worthy it's not too bad, but if you want to experience all the game has to offer from all perspectives...that doesn't seem to be something Blizzard wants their players to do anymore. A solo crappy console game isn't what i want, i dont own a console and never will, I watch children play them and the games all look the same and bore me within minutes, and it tragically seems like Blizzard is trying to take wow in that direction.
Our guild has talked about challenge modes, even had a few members go try a few, they reported too much pressure for too little return. Considering the miserable grinds we've all been suffering with through this expansion, and the state of frustrated angry resentment a LOT of players seem to play in these days. Timed events with this expansions nasty drop rates as reward just seem like adding insult to injury.


The point of Challenge Modes wasn't to give you return, it was to give you challenge. In other words, it's content for people to challenge themselves for the sake of it. Some people find that fun. You and your guild members may not, but don't bash it just for that.

The grinds aren't miserable at all and the grinds were worse the first 3 expansions.

I have 7 90s, every expansion until this one I have put the time and effort in to get all 10 of my toons to max level and raid worthy. I have 11 toons over 85 right now, 7 at 90, I want all of them at 90 and I want all of them capable of running all of the LFR. Getting there in this expansion has been the most unpleasant gaming experience I have ever had, and I have come to realize, that with things as they are, I simply can NOT "get there" because I can not choke down doing the horrid dailies across 11 toons to unlock the rep so i can spend valor and level professions. This expansion has left me feeling like the game just doesn't offer what i want anymore, which is the ability to run all classes at endgame and have time to have fun with them. Anymore the game seems to be trying to turn into some piss in the ocean console game where you have one toon you take through to endgame then throw the game in the garbage or trade it to a friend for a slurpee. If you level 1-2 toons you can do it with ease, if you want to get them raid worthy it's not too bad, but if you want to experience all the game has to offer from all perspectives...that doesn't seem to be something Blizzard wants their players to do anymore. A solo crappy console game isn't what i want, i dont own a console and never will, I watch children play them and the games all look the same and bore me within minutes, and it tragically seems like Blizzard is trying to take wow in that direction.


Here's your problem - you're trying to have a legion of alts. If you want that then you need to be willing to put some time and effort in. I really don't understand how you did this in BC and Wrath - assuming you were around back then - and have a problem with how Mists handles this.

I'll also remind you that WoW is pretty much the only MMO ever where you could even approach doing what you state you want to do (all classes at max level and in endgame content).

Maybe, just maybe, you need to rethink your approach to the game rather than blame Blizzard.

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