Suggestion: This argument with pve vs pvp.

General Discussion
Post Limit:
NOTE: First Paragraph is more of a slight rant, actual suggestion starts just past it.

You want to meld pvp and pve making both interchangeable yet there is a wall for pvpers to get into pve yet wide open gates for pve gear to work in pvp. Why not give pvp gear some extra stat called pve power that increases their damage and hit rating in pve? If it is acceptable in one direction why not the other? Blizzard wants to make the entry barrier nearly non-existent for other parts of the game (or at least it seems.) I see no problem with this but I feel that it is being approached incorrectly.

I feel that you need to acknowledge that they will be separate and separate them by these few points. (IMO)

1.) When you nerf a skill for pvp make it ONLY apply vs players (you already do this with many cc skills why not make damage skills work that way as well.) Likewise for the opposite nerfs.

2.) Give entry level full greens for pvp from a vendor purchasable with small amounts of gold. These will have pvp stats on them (remove base resil for all toons I'm sorry but that was a horrible idea.) You could even ensure this set of gear has as much resil as top tier pvp gear. This breaks the entry barrier into pvp without ensuring pve gear is best.

3.) Do something similar to this for pve, full max level greens. They should allow for basic hit cap at least and have some extra gem slots. They need to have Ilvl for at least the easier heroics. They need to be better than instanced gear but not heroic gear. (This may sound ridiculous with getting gear while leveling but with my next point you will need it if you use pvp gear.)

4.) Simply do not allow pve gear used in pvp and vice versa. Make it red as is it was durability 0/0.

5) Give everyone two set slots. one for pve gear and one for pvp. This way this resolution does not take up more bag space (even though pre 5.3 people should have used 2 sets regardless.)

Overall this gives the separation both PVPers and PVEers feel they deserve while bringing entry barriers down to near nothing.

Thoughts? Critiques? Suggestions?
Reserved if needed.
05/22/2013 06:56 AMPosted by Silentassn
(remove base resil for all toons I'm sorry but that was a horrible idea.)


Stopped reading here. Nothing but another troll. To me it breaks down to and this finally applies to PVP. Learn to Play, and stop using your gear as a handicap.
05/22/2013 07:21 AMPosted by Arastan
(remove base resil for all toons I'm sorry but that was a horrible idea.)


Stopped reading here. Nothing but another troll. To me it breaks down to and this finally applies to PVP. Learn to Play, and stop using your gear as a handicap.


Ah the traditional Troll response of L2P. I'm sorry if I think it is a little unfair that "scaled down gear" with extra Gem slots and extra stats (which trump pvp power in its current state) allow for more damage from a gearset not earned through pvp. I have no problem with making it equal to pvp gear, however better is quite absurd.
You can use PvP gear in PvE as the pvp stats are free and arent weighted against the item itself. That in itself is fact.

The fact that it is missing hit/exp is on par with PvE gear missing PvP power.
05/22/2013 07:24 AMPosted by Silentassn


Stopped reading here. Nothing but another troll. To me it breaks down to and this finally applies to PVP. Learn to Play, and stop using your gear as a handicap.


Ah the traditional Troll response of L2P. I'm sorry if I think it is a little unfair that "scaled down gear" with extra Gem slots and extra stats (which trump pvp power in its current state) allow for more damage from a gearset not earned through pvp. I have no problem with making it equal to pvp gear, however better is quite absurd.


So your definition of fair is Resilience. A stat that makes PVPers nearly immortal to other players. That is the definition of imbalance, and unfair. You still get PVP power which requires you to have skill to kill. Not just stand in once place and take less then half the damage dealt to you.

So yes, It is a learn to play, not a matter of being fair.
For years PvPers have been claiming PvP is skill based and PvE is not.

They have taken a step to make PvP actually more skill based than it was. PvPers are now sad. I am actually ok with PvP power making with the hit and exp in PvE. That is fine. Most serious PvE players still wouldn't take you seriously though because of the mentality of most PvP players we encounter. This can generally be summed up as "OMG LOOK AT HOW HUGE MY EPEEN IS! HAVE YOU SEEN IT? IT IS SO BIG AND AWESOME!"

PvP players don't work well in groups. They think they can ignore mechanics. They think "Lol PVE" is so easy they don't have to pay attention. Then they are proven wrong when they step into difficult content. Then they whine and cry and/or say things like "omg you all suxors. L2Heal, L2Tank, L2Play."

Now, if I walk into an Arena in my current gear and win it isn't because I have base resil. It is because the person I was fighting was really really really excessively bad at PvP. I mean. I am bad at PvP, seriously, so if you can't beat me you have bigger problems than normalized gear.


Ah the traditional Troll response of L2P. I'm sorry if I think it is a little unfair that "scaled down gear" with extra Gem slots and extra stats (which trump pvp power in its current state) allow for more damage from a gearset not earned through pvp. I have no problem with making it equal to pvp gear, however better is quite absurd.


So your definition of fair is Resilience. A stat that makes PVPers nearly immortal to other players. That is the definition of imbalance, and unfair. You still get PVP power which requires you to have skill to kill. Not just stand in once place and take less then half the damage dealt to you.

So yes, It is a learn to play, not a matter of being fair.


In place of the missing pvp power, and pvp power itself you all get a 3rd stat. It kinda sucks being that the third stat is now better than pvp power (I would much rather have more crit and mastery that pvp power.) You also get additional sockets.

I don't care about even playing field at all, bring that on I have been wishing for that since pre-bc. What I do care about is that this has caused an imbalance. Maybe the answer is to add the same sockets and stats to pvp gear and remove pvp power entirely. I'd be fine with that.

It is not l2p, I can still kill pver's easily, the real issue comes when people who are equally skilled and have pve gear (which I can not obtain because I can no longer schedule time to raid) will be doing more damage than those with full pvp gear.

I don't care about skill or equalization and am sick of being attacked for dumb !@#$. Lets assume I suck, so what. That doesnt mean you go off on a rant NOT pertaining to the forum post.

tell my why or why not this is or is not a good idea. Don't say l2p 1 shot troll 4204lyfe. This kiddie %^-* is getting a bit ridiculous.

You have said why the current changes are good, but how is my Idea bad and not better? give suggestions, don't just troll.
The difference in power between gear in the open world is more than enough to overcome any level of skill, especially with how dumbed down the game is with all the one shot macros now.
For years PvPers have been claiming PvP is skill based and PvE is not.

They have taken a step to make PvP actually more skill based than it was. PvPers are now sad. I am actually ok with PvP power making with the hit and exp in PvE. That is fine. Most serious PvE players still wouldn't take you seriously though because of the mentality of most PvP players we encounter. This can generally be summed up as "OMG LOOK AT HOW HUGE MY EPEEN IS! HAVE YOU SEEN IT? IT IS SO BIG AND AWESOME!"

PvP players don't work well in groups. They think they can ignore mechanics. They think "Lol PVE" is so easy they don't have to pay attention. Then they are proven wrong when they step into difficult content. Then they whine and cry and/or say things like "omg you all suxors. L2Heal, L2Tank, L2Play."

Now, if I walk into an Arena in my current gear and win it isn't because I have base resil. It is because the person I was fighting was really really really excessively bad at PvP. I mean. I am bad at PvP, seriously, so if you can't beat me you have bigger problems than normalized gear.


Unfortunately you have encountered the !@#$ty portion of the PVP community. I used to raid, dont anymore because of my inability to set aside time slots for progrssion.

That being I can say the same community exists in PVE, case and point the comments above you. "L2p" from pver's.

All I want is balance. I don't want pvpers nor pvers to have better gear. But currently PVE gear has an advantage.
You can use PvP gear in PvE as the pvp stats are free and arent weighted against the item itself. That in itself is fact.

The fact that it is missing hit/exp is on par with PvE gear missing PvP power.


The fact that there is a hit/exp disparity might also indicate that PVP power is indeed not free.

I haven't had a chance to see the new patch in effect. But I understand PVP players being upset at the disparity. True normalization would make all gear of the same ilevel comparable in all cases. My Malevolent set should be as effective in PVE as an equivalent VP set.

I just started PVP as a change of pace. The same dailies again were just too much to bear. The fact I took my lumps in bgs should make me equally eligible to join an LFR or whatever. I don't high end game, but I appreciate that PVPers are disappointed.

Make PVP power count in PVE. Close the hit/exp gap by making PVP power useful in PVE and I see a lot of QQ quieting down. I would like the option to gear through PVP, dailies for VP, or raids. All should produce similar results in all cases. "Balancing" PVP in favor of PVE is not exactly fair.
Battlegrounds, Rated Battlegrounds, and Arenas now have an ilevel cap. All gear will be scaled down to ilevel 496.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/9679398/53_Escalation_Patch_Notes-5_20_2013#pvp

If you can't beat a pve player go relearn your class.
NOTE: First Paragraph is more of a slight rant, actual suggestion starts just past it.

You want to meld pvp and pve making both interchangeable yet there is a wall for pvpers to get into pve yet wide open gates for pve gear to work in pvp. Why not give pvp gear some extra stat called pve power that increases their damage and hit rating in pve? If it is acceptable in one direction why not the other? Blizzard wants to make the entry barrier nearly non-existent for other parts of the game (or at least it seems.) I see no problem with this but I feel that it is being approached incorrectly.

I feel that you need to acknowledge that they will be separate and separate them by these few points. (IMO)

1.) When you nerf a skill for pvp make it ONLY apply vs players (you already do this with many cc skills why not make damage skills work that way as well.) Likewise for the opposite nerfs.

2.) Give entry level full greens for pvp from a vendor purchasable with small amounts of gold. These will have pvp stats on them (remove base resil for all toons I'm sorry but that was a horrible idea.) You could even ensure this set of gear has as much resil as top tier pvp gear. This breaks the entry barrier into pvp without ensuring pve gear is best.

3.) Do something similar to this for pve, full max level greens. They should allow for basic hit cap at least and have some extra gem slots. They need to have Ilvl for at least the easier heroics. They need to be better than instanced gear but not heroic gear. (This may sound ridiculous with getting gear while leveling but with my next point you will need it if you use pvp gear.)

4.) Simply do not allow pve gear used in pvp and vice versa. Make it red as is it was durability 0/0.

5) Give everyone two set slots. one for pve gear and one for pvp. This way this resolution does not take up more bag space (even though pre 5.3 people should have used 2 sets regardless.)

Overall this gives the separation both PVPers and PVEers feel they deserve while bringing entry barriers down to near nothing.

Thoughts? Critiques? Suggestions?


Question:

Why would you still want to separate PVE and pvp gear types?

Aren't the problems enough as it is from both sides?

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