Time for a Warlock Tank - Don't Rage Please

Warlock
OK! Before you all start raging on about "no way there are too many tanks as is!" I totally agree, I'd rather see a beast warlock tank than a monk any day. Also if you're just going to respond with "no", "terrible", "bad" etc etc don't reply. I'm completely open to positive and negative feedback or possible alterations to my idea. Just curious what you all think mostly.

With that said blizzard already has the ideas and platform already in game to allow a warlock tank with only a few tweaks. Here we go!

First off, any of you who have ever run Glyph of Demon Hunting for leveling or PvP know just how much of a "tank" you can be. Between Fury ward self bubbles, to Provocation taunt, and the increased threat and reduction in damage taken as a whole you're basically a tank.

Now a lot of you pvp demo locks like to run this (along with myself) for bgs, rbgs, and arenas for that quick survivability boost and would hate to see it go away from a dps spec (trust me I would too) but I think having a tank spec would make it worth it. A fun, active, tanking style would be a refreshing change from the pallies, druids, and dks of the game.

Now to make it a tank and it's own unique spec only a few minor tweaks would have to be implemented:

FIRST: Allow this new spec (call it what you will, demon hunter, dark apotheosis etc I don't care about this part) to use shields. Keep the base stats the same so intellect shields would be preferred. Only shaman and pallies use these right now and they can both use offhands also so I don't think they'd really suffer from one extra spec using it. This will add a little extra survivability/armor to the spec.

SECOND: Since hand of gul'dan, demonic leap, and carrion swarm are unique to demo take them away. Instead of hand of gul'dan add an AoE cone spell, just use the old animation from shadowflame and give it 2 stacks (or something), deal damage, high threat and add a 5% damage reduction (or whatever) when it hits a target or something like that. It'll help you keep aggro and keep you alive. Keep fury ward as a survivability tool. Replace demonic leap with some charge or something or a new spell and like a "meteor rush" just use the same animation as the falling meteor glyph and have it do a small aoe damage attack when it hits or something crazy like that. Simple enough. Maybe have the DA stance add more armor or something to boost the survivability. And maybe toss in an extra CD for keeping yourself alive.

THIRD: Pets are fine the way they are! Tanks would probably choose imp for the self heal or voidwalker to share aggro with you and "off tank" You could even make a glyph where pet aggro is transfered to you or just build it into the spec

FOURTH: Talents work as well! No shock here all of the talents would work! Only talent you probably wouldn't swap out would be mortal coil for the 15% heal. The rest are interchangeable.

FIFTH: Come up with an interesting mastery like "bubble for x amount of damage done" or something crazy like that

SIXTH: Give it a stance like Demo has DA or Meta. Just make it like DA basically but maybe add in a little better damage reduction or something.

FINALLY: Don't make the damage output too insane. We don't want anything on the Blood DK level in PvP. Just want something interesting for PvE that isn't warlock lovers could get into.

TL;DR: Just read the damn thing. You came here to read this post, don't be lazy.
Rage


/gasp
Locktopus.
after having numerous long debates about this particular topic 3 major issues keep coming up regardless of who starts the topic where.

provocation /= taunt for a lock that is an easy fix though

blizz doesn't like the idea of not having to gear a different set of gear to dps/tank, i would suggest spirit gear seeing as only priests use it at the moment use it a a hit/exp capper or something

3rd we really on have one mitigation tool and it doesn't scale with incoming damage, that being fury ward, so we would need a vengeance equivalent and a second mitigation choice something like SotR would be nice,

those are the major issues, our mastery already works we get plenty of health and self heals our single target rotation is a little bit lacks flavor it just seems like its reg demo spec to -meta poping.

solutions to this minor issue is fairly simple make soulfire more reactive based on incomming damage rather in HoG, make void ray void wave(cone like carrion swarm) give us an AoE corruption starter,have haste effect spell refresh,merge HoG with demonic leap. instead of summoning a demon outright make it possess us(saves on awkward threat juggles/making us op tanks by taunt swapping with ourselves)give us back fel flame but make it a high threat filler, give us a old life syphon back (make sure it gens fury too)

reasons to go this way we would have a decent rotation for single/AoE targets, we would have available gear with appropriate start priortys

stam>int>spirit>=haste=mastery>crit

as you can see the first half is what we need the second half is just QoL
Thanks for the input! I like the idea of using the spirit gear to differentiate between DPS and tank.

3rd we really on have one mitigation tool and it doesn't scale with incoming damage, that being fury ward, so we would need a vengeance equivalent and a second mitigation choice something like SotR would be nice,


I agree that vengeance would be an amazing tool to be used (or something like it) I hadn't even considered this.

instead of summoning a demon outright make it possess us(saves on awkward threat juggles/making us op tanks by taunt swapping with ourselves


With the demon idea, the only problem I see is that I'm not sure how the possess idea would work with talents. Sounds similar to Grimoire of Sacrifice, and that would cause problems with that whole tier of talents as well as the level 45 talents (sacrificial pact, etc). Hence why I thought just regular demons could work. Could you explain further what you meant?

05/24/2013 12:02 AMPosted by Rottinggoth
solutions to this minor issue is fairly simple make soulfire more reactive based on incomming damage rather in HoG, make void ray void wave(cone like carrion swarm) give us an AoE corruption starter,have haste effect spell refresh,merge HoG with demonic leap.


As far as soul fire goes I'd probably do away with it complete as casting anything as a tank would be a pain. How about having fel flame (or its replacement) along with demonic slash for single target and the new ability (void wave or whatver you called it or some other variation) along with a new version of hellfire which was just dropped on the ground. Kind of like a combination of concecration and flamestrike. You could basically just do flamestrike cast on yourself that leaves behind an aoe. Keep the 2 charges on the cone ability and flamestrike ability on a cd and just do single target in between (if everything is cooling down)

Thank you again for your input!
with the possession think of it like when you get mc'd by the sha modifying your abilities a bit like imp possession halves refresh/damage of Insta-casts increases 10-15% movement speed, voidy amps up you Defense at the cost of damage output, succy single target threat, puppy anti-magic, guard AoE(cleaves cleaves everywhere), all that while maintaining there regular abilities, when you sac same rules apply only it makes doubles??? the effect of the ability you get to keep(saccing for burst phases or ++health with soullink)

with sup its the 10%better for 10% less cost, service works as normal

at the moment soulfire works its just how the procs need to be more reliable for tanking, people cause 1.2-1.5s casts are barely really casts anyway.

heres how i picture our AoE rotation starter
seed of corruption, HoGleap, immoaura,MIT, void wave to refresh corruption, start dropping your syphon lifes.DS,DS,MIT, SF on proc(guards cleave mode)

single target starter would be more like
corruption, hogleap, syphonlife DS,MIT,DS,FF DS, VW , DS, MIT SF on proc, port out hogleap in(possibly)

so maintaing DoTs for base Fury gen, DS to power mit, FF/VW as filler, hogleap would have WB built in basically the point behind us would be to keep moving for our hard cast major threat builders, think sorta like how you gate hop fighting kathrehard

i really like the idea of a casting tank sure the idea needs refining but it would definitely be different and way fun
I believe that warlocks as tanks are a foolish idea unless blizz decides to give better gear, such as mail. As a clothie, locks would take too much damage, even though they may have a healer. It would take a healer everything they have to keep the lock up and working. So, that being said, having a lock tank is a very bad idea. Btw, I'm a demo lock, ilvl 512.
false gearing wise its fairly easy DA puts us at plate level armor plus we get 26% damage reduction 10% healing base plate tank equiv without the healing so try again our active is where we miss out at the moment which has already been covered
I believe that warlocks as tanks are a foolish idea unless blizz decides to give better gear, such as mail. As a clothie, locks would take too much damage, even though they may have a healer. It would take a healer everything they have to keep the lock up and working. So, that being said, having a lock tank is a very bad idea. Btw, I'm a demo lock, ilvl 512.


*shrug* plenty of workarounds. Leather works fine for bears and monks. And since warlock tanks would likely be tanking as demons anyway, their armor type is irrelevant, just like it is with bears, at least logically speaking: bears don't wear armor, they're just getting the stam/agi/whatever from having it equipped more or less. Even assuming it was somehow still a problem, a stance or a bonus from say, mastery or int could easily compensate for the weakness of cloth.

A warlock's potential viability as a tank doesn't really come into question. The real issue is whether or not the community would approve of such an option. Sadly, a lot of weak-willed players are afraid that merely having the OPTION to tank would mean getting pressured at gunpoint into becoming tanks by their guildies/friends whatever.

Last I saw, a lot of these people seem/seemed to consider their warlocks to be their alts though, and were using them as a "vacation" away from their real hybrid mains, and thus they didn't care about the warlock class in the slightest, but rather were perfectly happy keeping their throwaway warlock alts pure and free from the responsibility of being more useful to others. This makes sense, as IMO no sane person would turn down the OPTION for their main to be more versatile if didn't mess with/remove the existing DPS specs. Additional utility at no cost? Sounds horrible, right? Inb4 hybrid tax (which doesn't exist), or lore junkies that still consider it blasphemy to bend the lore in a game with overweight, fluffy humanoid pandas. :/
I like the idea a lot. As many people have said, armour type doesn't matter since the boost to armour will be built into the spec or it will come with talents/glyphs/abilities.

The only thing I can't think of it what sort of stats we'd have to use, since it's been mentioned that blizz likes tanks to have to get a tank set of gear, and as tanks (with the same stats as the other specs) we'd have to compete will all the int dps classes and healers for gear. Unless they go back and itemize a lot of gear for the leveling tanklock, idk how it will happen.

We've been asking for tanklocks for ever and they finally gave us something in the form of DA. It might be a hint for the future that they're testing us out.
I play my lock because I wanted a pure dps class. A tanking spec takes away from that and people may only want us to tank in groups if this is implemented. If I wanted to tank I would have rolled a tank class.
05/24/2013 12:02 AMPosted by Rottinggoth
blizz doesn't like the idea of not having to gear a different set of gear to dps/tank


They must have forgotten that they invented paladins.
05/24/2013 09:09 AMPosted by Altairius
blizz doesn't like the idea of not having to gear a different set of gear to dps/tank


They must have forgotten that they invented paladins.


Your pets have amazing names.
05/24/2013 09:15 AMPosted by Evalain


They must have forgotten that they invented paladins.


Your pets have amazing names.


Why thank you.. I'm still trying to think of one more fitting for the emerald.
I'd be all for Warlock tanking given a few rules for Blizzard to follow while implementing it: no current spec gets changed at all to accommodate a tank spec, and that none of our damage gets reduced all because of this change.

You warlocks wana be tanks? Have at it. Do not touch my Demo spec.
to the OP. I like the idea of a lock tank but I have a few issues. (I apologize if this sounds harsh, it's not supossed to be I promise =)).

1. Locks shouldn't be able to use shields. If you think about how locks fight, the rely mostly on cunning and intellect for spells and enslaving demons to do the physical work, rather than personal physical strength. Being able to block with a shield would require physical strength we don't have.

2. No pets as tanking. Tanking is more...let's say delicate than dps. If you turn a boss wrong, you can wipe the raid. Micro managing 2 health bars would be an added strain on both the tank and possibly healer depending on how much we needed to lean on the pet.

Off the top of my head, a possible solution would be a spell based shield. Similar to Sac pact but offering more than just the one spell. Possible examples, again thinking out loud here:

Imp: could offer a fire shield that does high threat burns to whatever attacks the tank and also higher resistance to fire dmg or a fire damage proc heal.

Voidwalker: shadow shield applies insanity debuff that does no damage but generates more threat than imp burn and also higher def against shadow dmg or shadow damage proc heal.

Succubus: fel fire blade shield resisting melee/range and maybe adding a reverse knockback where instead it clumps enemies together or adding a cleave effect to other abilities.

Felpuppy: Spell shield offers blanket spell resistance to magic but less to fire/shadow than imp/voidwalker and offering a proc heal to all spells but less chance than imp/void shields.

Again I'm making this on the spot, but this would add a unique feel to the tanking. Most tanks don't have situation-specific self buffs like those. Would make us unique tanks. Just my 2 cents. (edit to make more organized)
to the OP. I like the idea of a lock tank but I have a few issues. (I apologize if this sounds harsh, it's not supossed to be I promise =)).

1. Locks shouldn't be able to use shields. If you think about how locks fight, the rely mostly on cunning and intellect for spells and enslaving demons to do the physical work, rather than personal physical strength. Being able to block with a shield would require physical strength we don't have.

2. No pets as tanking. Tanking is more...let's say delicate than dps. If you turn a boss wrong, you can wipe the raid. Micro managing 2 health bars would be an added strain on both the tank and possibly healer depending on how much we needed to lean on the pet.

Off the top of my head, a possible solution would be a spell based shield. Similar to Sac pact but offering more than just the one spell. Possible examples, again thinking out loud here:

Imp: could offer a fire shield that does high threat burns to whatever attacks the tank and also higher resistance to fire dmg or a fire damage proc heal.

Voidwalker: shadow shield applies insanity debuff that does no damage but generates more threat than imp burn and also higher def against shadow dmg or shadow damage proc heal.

Succubus: fel fire blade shield resisting melee/range and maybe adding a reverse knockback where instead it clumps enemies together or adding a cleave effect to other abilities.

Felpuppy: Spell shield offers blanket spell resistance to magic but less to fire/shadow than imp/voidwalker and offering a proc heal to all spells but less chance than imp/void shields.

Again I'm making this on the spot, but this would add a unique feel to the tanking. Most tanks don't have situation-specific self buffs like those. Would make us unique tanks. Just my 2 cents. (edit to make more organized)


Not harsh at all! And thank you for the reply! As I stated in the first post I'm more than open to suggestions, alterations etc. I'm no professional designer and I just wanted to get people to maybe consider the idea.

Again the only problem I have with not having the pets would be that our talents would be messed up. What if all pet aggro was just redirected to the warlock itself, thus preventing any unwanted turning. You could still incorporate the shield idea and just have the pet do reduced damage maybe. Having soul link or sacrificial pact would be an amazing bonus to keeping a pet out and of course dark bargain is outstanding tank utility also. Plus you could always sacrifice your pet with the other talents. But I believe keeping the option open to have a second or stronger pet should be out there too. I just want to avoid changing anything for the DPS specs. They're all great the way they are.

As for not using an actual physical shield, that's fine too, it was just an idea to get a little extra defense. If our armor/defense is boosted to a decent level with the DA buff that'd be more than good enough too. Blood DKs manage without a shield and so do monks and druids we could be fine too. Just putting down what fell out of my head haha.
I'd have to agree with shields not fitting thematically. Dual wield would be nice though. :)
THIRD: Pets are fine the way they are! Tanks would probably choose imp for the self heal or voidwalker to share aggro with you and "off tank" You could even make a glyph where pet aggro is transfered to you or just build it into the spec


I found the preferred spec, is to go Soul Link + Grim of Sac. It gives you a 20% HP boost.(Not to mention the Sac buff it self, healing you for 2% of HP per 5, and 30% more damage.)

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