FlexRaid...The way it should be...

General Discussion
Here we are again. Blizzard developers have created some new idea. On paper it doesn't look bad but almost as certain as the sun rises, the developers will implement it in the worst way possible.

The scaling idea for raids is quite intelligent. Adding it as another difficulty between LFR and Normal/Heroic raiding is quite stupid. You made 10 and 25 man share a lockout for a reason. Remember the whole ICC killing of The Lich King twice in a week discussions? This just adds a THIRD time you can kill a boss each week.

Make FlexRaid work and make it work well. I am here to tell you how! TWO difficulties. No more, no less. One of the biggest problems facing WoW is the 10v25 debacle. So this helps to solve this issue with the use of FlexRaid.

Difficulty #1 LFR (25man same as it is now)
Rewards LFR ilvl loot
Difficulty #2 10-25 FlexRaid (10man stays the same and anything from 11-25 adjusts)
Rewards Normal/Heroic ilvl loot

NOTHING MORE...NOTHING LESS.
06/07/2013 06:07 PMPosted by Layuth
Make FlexRaid work and make it work well.


Maybe you should wait until it comes out on PTR and play it before you make baseless accusations.
06/07/2013 06:10 PMPosted by Adrastia
Make FlexRaid work and make it work well.


Maybe you should wait until it comes out on PTR and play it before you make baseless accusations.


BUt where would be the fun in that?

I kinda agree with the OP, but only if players themselves make it such a problem.
Count on losing my subscription if such an idea ever comes to fruition.
I agree. I think flexible raiding shouldn't be a new difficulty level but should replace normal mode raiding.
We're the players. We don't need to test new ideas, we make assumptions based on acknowledged facts of the past, and recognized patterns in the implementations of new features.
That being said, this FlexRaid sounds like an OK idea, but I can't help but think that this is Blizz's solution to dying guilds *cough*that they caused*cough*, and with that state of mind, I'm going to bias my a$$ off and imply that this will be horrible.
Now, we could just wait until the patch hits 5.4 to see how the system really works before we start branding everyone.
I agree. I think flexible raiding shouldn't be a new difficulty level but should replace normal mode raiding.


I hope I didn't read this right.
I agree. I think flexible raiding shouldn't be a new difficulty level but should replace normal mode raiding.

How would you address the giant difficulty gulf that would exist between flex raid and heroic?
Here's what I don't get...

If it's that simple to scale raid difficulty based on the number of players in it, why not just make normal and heroic raids do that? I don't understand why they need to make a fourth raid that does that, when they could just implement that feature into the current raids?

I'm sure I'm missing something. :\
Although the OP has the worst attitude possible, I'd like to add to what they're saying. I think this is a fantastic feature that will add a lot to the family/friends guild scene, but here are a few suggestions! (forgive the post length, but this is a huge feature!)

Enabling raid sizes between 8-30 players would ensure that just about any attendance situation can still result in a night of raiding. These are the possible situations:

Poor attendance for a 10-man team (8 players minimum)
Over-attendance for a 10-mean team (11-18 players)
Poor attendance for a 25-man team (19-24 players)
Over-attendance for a 25-man team (26-30 players)

So allowing for a wider quantity of players could solve all of these!

The LFR-styled loot has been getting a lot of discussion as well, and I think that the raid leader should have a choice. LFR looting is great for PUG situations, which I'm sure this system will be used for a great deal. However, I've always felt that the Master Looter system helps build a sense of unity and team-building that's perfect for friends/family. So why not allow for both of those systems? Let the raid decide what's best for them. You can already choose between Group Loot, FFA and Master Looter; add Per Player (LFR-style) to the list.

As far as the actual loot drops, there's some concern about the in-between areas where you have 12 or 17 raiders. Here's one solution: 1 guaranteed drop per 5 players, with the remaining players granting a % for an additional drop. Examples:

10 players: 2 drops
11 players: 2 drops + 20% chance for a 3rd
14 players: 2 drops + 80% chance for a 3rd
15 players: 3 drops

Might be a little complicated, but I think the concerns about finding the most effective player/drop rate are legitimate and there needs to be some kind of solution.

Finally, the issue of an additional separate raid lockout does seem a bit strange. With two lockouts existing currently with LFR and Normal/Heroic, any more would feel a bit bloated. What if this Flex system became the new Normal mode? Heroic could remain the same to facilitate tighter boss tuning at the competitive level. Here's the vision for the raiding scene:

LFR (remains 25 players)(rewards ilvl 'A')
Normal (8-30 players)(rewards ilvl 'B')(shares lockout with Heroic)
Heroic (remains 10 or 25 players)(rewards ilvl 'C')(shares lockout with Normal)

Basically Flex becomes the new Normal, two lockouts per week remains standard, LFR and Heroic are untouched. Because Heroic modes are highly competitive and create great world-first races, locking them at 10 or 25 player rosters allows Blizz to ensure the difficulty can only be conquered by player quality, not quantity.

Thoughts? Very excited to see how this plays out on the PTR
Why does anyone really care what ilvl a piece of gear has? Who do you pick to raid ToT with you.. the person wearing ilvl 496, 502 or 522? Answer: The one that doesn't stand in fire.

As long as you're in something viable, your gear is the least important part about you. Who your guild allows to decide what ilvl is viable is probably one of the more important decisions you can make. It should always be someone who recognises talent and is willing to help bring that talent to its full potential rather than forcing everyone to feel they have to run redundant versions of the same raid just to have a chance of being included.
Raiding hit the dirt when legendary items became obtainable in LFR.
What's next? glory mount achievments in LFR too?


I have to agree with Demon on this. Although I do alot of LFR, I do think that the Legendary quest should be an exclusive normal/heroic raid item. What's Legendary about a common item?
Far too much assumptions based on a few paragraphs. People like the OP are the same idiots that dismiss movies based on 30 second teaser trailers. You know nothing worth forming an opinion on. Just... wait.
I agree. I think flexible raiding shouldn't be a new difficulty level but should replace normal mode raiding.


100% agree. This is the way normal mode guilds operate anyways.
100% agree. This is the way normal mode guilds operate anyways.

10 mans often have very rigid compositions. Or at least the ones I've been in. In quite a number of the 10 man raiding guilds I've been in we've run two groups. Can't always get everyone on at the same time for a 25 man, you see.

But something like flex raiding could mean on offnights for one group we could make do with a partial combination from both groups and still get some raiding done without having to really worry about who brings what or how that affects the regular raiding time for whatever group is off for the night.
le upvote

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