So your removing Tier from LFR

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This seems like a poor direction to head in terms of subscription retention.

Why not go back to the Sunwell/Naxx40 model where less than 5% of the player base even gets to enter the "prestigious" raids?

Funny thing is, less than 5% of subscribers have killed Jin'rokh in Normal, with it dropping to under 2% by Lei Shen. Yes, in order to raise the numbers even to such a pathetic level of attendance through the final boss, the existing content would have to be nerfed, to the ground.
We currently do not have any plans to remove tier sets from LFR.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9281618854#10

direct blue quote....point of thread was bad rumor, not fact.
I don't think it's a bad idea to be honest. If LFR is end-game for players that just wish to see the content then you get that, but for players who want a full set of tier or work on a legendary I do feel there needs to be a bit more time invested involved.

There also needs to be more incentive for players to do Flex raiding, if you can afk through LFR and get all your tier and legendary items why would you want to do Flex? For a slightly higher item level? Doubtful.
Flex raiding will be a lot less time invested than Normals as you are still only committing time to a wing and you have players that are a bit more coordinated and know what's going on.

Blizzard will need to get the balance just right with Flex raiding or else they risk messing up the raiding community more. They need to figure out what incentives will get players to up the difficulty level and what will define each level without having unnecessary forms of content.

I know many people will disagree with me and I'm sure some will agree with me but personally I think it should be like this:

Heroic: Tier, Legendary, Achievements, 'Thunderforged', Vanity
For players who want a challenge

Normal: Tier, Legendary, Achievements, 'Thunderforged'
For players who want a 'raiding experience' with a bit more difficulty and time invested

Flex: Tier, Legendary, Achievements
For players who want a 'raiding experience' on a flexible, more casual, schedule

LFR: All other loot on the table
For players who want to see the content on their own schedule

What I mean by raiding experience is the communication, coordination, preparation, etc. that goes along with raiding that doesn't exist in LFR. In LFR the tanks have the largest burden of responsibility, you can have 1 good healer and 1 - 2 good DPS carry their roles but not with tanks, in a real raiding experience there is a bit more responsibility on all roles.
but if they're available in flex mode that shouldn't hurt LFR players as much as people think it would given the intended ease of that format.


Its NOT about the ease of the format.

Its about the inability to commit to a regularly scheduled raid time due to RL situations.

That is what the entire LFR was designed around.


LFR: All other loot on the table
For players who want to see the content on their own schedule



Tier gear and legendaries ARE part of the content.

I too agree there should be some difference but as far as I am concerned leave me a set bonuses on the tier gear "in" LFR. Make normals and Heroics however VASTLY superior in stats.
I too agree there should be some difference but as far as I am concerned leave me a set bonuses on the tier gear "in" LFR. Make normals and Heroics however VASTLY superior in stats.


That causes a lot of scaling issues going into the next tier of content though. I guess it's a matter of perception. I don't see set bonuses or legendary items as integral to the content really, they'll be irrelevant one patch later. The raid encounters are the meat and the instance design the bones of content, everything else is just a tool to experience it (in my opinion of course). As long as they give raiders of all difficulty models the tools to progress competitively in those encounters then I feel it's enough.

I also don't really like the current legendary model, it kills the legendary feel of it. Yes legendaries like Dragonwrath sucked in that you had to pick a raider to get it and it caused conflict in some guilds but the actual quests themselves (although incredibly grindy in places) were a lot more interesting then running LFR and having stuff passively looted into your bags.
your


/facepalm
Nothing is being removed from Raid Finder. In fact, the rewards Ghostcrawler mentioned in his tweets are something brand new that haven’t previously been available in any raid content.

We want there to be some incentives to “make the jump” from Raid Finder into something more organized. However, we’d like to do that in a way that doesn’t take anything away from Raid Finder. So instead of removing set bonuses, trinkets, legendary progress, or anything else along those lines, we decided to come up with something new.

Just to be totally clear: Raid Finder in Patch 5.4 will be itemized with all the same sorts of stuff you’ve come to expect over the last couple of tiers. There will, however, be a brand spanking new type of reward that is only available to players who choose to step up into Flex, Normal, or Heroic raiding. Hope that clears the air a bit! :)
There will, however, be a brand spanking new type of reward that is only available to players who choose to step up into Flex, Normal, or Heroic raiding. Hope that clears the air a bit! :)
Awesomeeeeee!
06/14/2013 03:36 PMPosted by Lore
There will, however, be a brand spanking new type of reward that is only available to players who choose to step up into Flex, Normal, or Heroic raiding.


I'm excited!
Nothing is being removed from Raid Finder. In fact, the rewards Ghostcrawler mentioned in [url="https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/344256641144872960"]his[/url] [url="https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/343423515795521536"]tweets[/url] are something brand new that haven’t previously been available in any raid content.

We want there to be some incentives to “make the jump” from Raid Finder into something more organized. However, we’d like to do that in a way that doesn’t take anything away from Raid Finder. So instead of removing set bonuses, trinkets, legendary progress, or anything else along those lines, we decided to come up with something new.

Just to be totally clear: Raid Finder in Patch 5.4 will be itemized with all the same sorts of stuff you’ve come to expect over the last couple of tiers. There will, however, be a brand spanking new type of reward that is only available to players who choose to step up into Flex, Normal, or Heroic raiding. Hope that clears the air a bit! :)


I wish i could thumbs up blue post!!
Thanks Lore always have liked your attitude.
This is the right way to do it. Its best to find some thing new to add to the other modes to make people want to do them.
All these posters that want some thing taken way from lfr just so others may want to do the other modes are thief's.
They want to break into my house take my stuff and put it in some one else house in hopes i visit that someone so i can see my stuff again.
Now just bump the Flex iLevel up into the 540's and you got a good deal
06/14/2013 03:46 PMPosted by Provence
The only way you are going to drive people back into normal raiding is to remove LFR.


No that would just drive players away from the game.
The majority of players using lfr were not raiders to begin with.
Blues have stated this.
Your not going to get these players ot move up in any large amount of numbers into normals.
Just to be totally clear: Raid Finder in Patch 5.4 will be itemized with all the same sorts of stuff you’ve come to expect over the last couple of tiers. There will, however, be a brand spanking new type of reward that is only available to players who choose to step up into Flex, Normal, or Heroic raiding. Hope that clears the air a bit! :)


So..instead of punishing players by removing aspects of the game, you're giving them incentives to run aspects they haven't previously, as well as giving bonus incentives to those that have already run them.

Well done, Blizzard. You're learning to give incentives to do content, not taking content away and forcing people into it.

You and me, Lore, we're gonna get along fabulously.
Nothing is being removed from Raid Finder. In fact, the rewards Ghostcrawler mentioned in [url="https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/344256641144872960"]his[/url] [url="https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/343423515795521536"]tweets[/url] are something brand new that haven’t previously been available in any raid content.

We want there to be some incentives to “make the jump” from Raid Finder into something more organized. However, we’d like to do that in a way that doesn’t take anything away from Raid Finder. So instead of removing set bonuses, trinkets, legendary progress, or anything else along those lines, we decided to come up with something new.

Just to be totally clear: Raid Finder in Patch 5.4 will be itemized with all the same sorts of stuff you’ve come to expect over the last couple of tiers. There will, however, be a brand spanking new type of reward that is only available to players who choose to step up into Flex, Normal, or Heroic raiding. Hope that clears the air a bit! :)


Thanks for clearing that up Lore! You're awesome! Sadly, I'm afraid the LFR haters are still not going to feel special enough so they'll continue to hate. But thanks for trying! :)

And to the LFR haters, before you call us 'entitled' again (fine ones to be talking lol), you might be surprised how many of us are ok with the above (or would be if you'd quit hating on our method of playing). Flex, Normal and heroic getting something extra that LFR doesn't is ok with me.
06/14/2013 03:42 PMPosted by Ageha
There will, however, be a brand spanking new type of reward that is only available to players who choose to step up into Flex, Normal, or Heroic raiding.


I'm excited!


I wanna know D:
Is it going to be Triumph Points?
Nothing is being removed from Raid Finder. In fact, the rewards Ghostcrawler mentioned in [url="https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/344256641144872960"]his[/url] [url="https://twitter.com/Ghostcrawler/status/343423515795521536"]tweets[/url] are something brand new that haven’t previously been available in any raid content.

We want there to be some incentives to “make the jump” from Raid Finder into something more organized. However, we’d like to do that in a way that doesn’t take anything away from Raid Finder. So instead of removing set bonuses, trinkets, legendary progress, or anything else along those lines, we decided to come up with something new.

Just to be totally clear: Raid Finder in Patch 5.4 will be itemized with all the same sorts of stuff you’ve come to expect over the last couple of tiers. There will, however, be a brand spanking new type of reward that is only available to players who choose to step up into Flex, Normal, or Heroic raiding. Hope that clears the air a bit! :)


How about you start rewarding raiders for their effort?
Heroic gets more than Normal gets more than Flex.

Right now, Heroic gets the same as normal. Why are Heroic raiders forced into other content to VP cap, when they already spend crazy amounts of time doing Heroic content. What happened to Heroic end boss mounts? What happened to BoE items from raids? What happened to legendary items not dropping with a higher rate from Heroic?

TLDR; why isn't extra effort and skill proportionally rewarded?

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